Will

I agree with you Kaia-chan. There is any evidence. The only thing we can do is to take this death as real or not. For me, it is real otherwise it wouldn't be so beautiful and symbolic then the end wouldn't have the same taste.

I agree with you. Else the ending would be a bad joke.

kikyou93

lelouch was weak too when nunnaly touched his hand... So lelouch became immortal, and faked his dead and nunnaly knew everything when she touched lelouch's hand..

If Nunnally knew that Lelouch was immortal, why would she cry so desperately? That would not make any sense. In addition to that, why would Suzaku cry while stabbing him? I believe Lelouch would have told him that he was immortal if that fact had been true.

Katelyn

Lelouch is alive and well, he's also immortal! My reason for saying this is if Rolo and Nunnally could survive the flea attack, then I’m pretty sure that good old Lulu would definitely survive a mere stab through the chest.

Rolo has been in a safe place at that time and he was not in range of Fleia. This is why he was safe. In addition to that, Schneizel has saved Nunnally by using two different planes. One plan in which Nunnally was has been out of Fleia's range. The second plan in which Lelouch and everyone believed that Nunnally were departing has been hit.
It was Schneizel's plan to stab Lelouch behind his back with Nunnaly's survive.

Katelyn

The immortal part, I believe he got that when he killed his father and what was left of his mother.

I do not believe that Lelouch has received that immortal code by killing his parents.

Katelyn

I do not agree with the idea of Lelouch being dead because it wouldn’t make any sense to me. Let’s face it, people are sheep and they will flock to whatever side that is more convenient for them. Jesus sacrificed himself for the good of humanity and look at how great that turned out! There’s just no way that Lulu would every really sacrifice himself for a better Britannia or world, its absolute rubbish, the guy is far too smart and intelligent to ever do a stupid thing like that.

Lelouch has done that not for the world or for Britannia, but for Nunnally!
He wanted to change the world in that way that Nunnally could live peacefully - the gentle world Nunnally wished.

Katelyn

And as far as being best friend with Susaka, that's crap give me a break, if Susaka was given the choice to sacrifice Lelouch's life in order to bring back Euphy, the guy would do it in a heartbeat so don’t kid yourselves.

If Suzaku had done everything to see Euphemia again, then he would have simply agreed with Charles' plan to that. In that world he could be reunited with the deceased people. However, he has chosen the reality, tomorrow and not the past!
In that point I disagree with you.

Katelyn

Lulu preformed a beautiful play of heroism and everyone bought it and are happy, finally the guy can live a peaceful life with C.C. by his side. It was a superb ending and I’m glad that they did it in a way where there is no more room for a possible R3. It’s OVER!

Well, I do not agree with your points, but I do not intend to change your opinion. However, I agree with you that a 3rd season would not be possible except they use new characters.

Ok guys, the question on everyone's mind at the conclusion of Code Geass R2 is if course whether Lelouch is still alive. Although 'ubadawan' gave an explanation, it was neither convincing, or in any way persuasuve coz he never provided factual evidence or scenes to support the mainstream theory that Lelouch is still alive. Many of you know me for typing up really long responses, and cutting people for weird or crappy theories, but bare with me as i explain it all.

Obviously the only indication of Lelouch ebing alive thus far is from the comment made by CC. It was in third person which makes fans debate on such topics, much to wat we are doing right now. Furthermore there was a slight moment on the cart driver itself.
CC: “Geass is the power of kings, it will isolate you… well, I guess thats a little wrong… eh, Lelouch”

The second and most important event is when Lelouch confronted his Dad in the world of C. Before Charles was taken by the world of C, he transferred his symbol to Lelouch. Note that when Charles grabs Lelouch, he grabs him with his right hand, the same hand which has the Code on it.

Now some of you may wonder why Lelouch has a code, when he can cast geass as well, on Nunally, Schneizel and other soldiers. Of course we all know that when you have the Code, you lose the ability to cast geass in exchange for immortality, and you can give geass to other people. However that theory only applies to the one who originally gave geass. In this case, Lelouch got his Code from Charles, but he still holds a contract with CC, which explains why he has both.

To further support this theory, other bits of evidence are necessary, such as:
-Lelouch needed a fully evolved geass to transfer a code.
-The Code does not surface until the one who recieve it dies. Note that Geass worked on Charles, and he got shot, before he was able to stand up again as an immortal. Note also that CC was shot in the head before she came back as an immortal. Lelouch had to be stabbed forr the Code to surface.
And lastly...
-When Nunally touched the presumably dead Lelouch, she got an insight into his memories. This telepathic transfer happened when other people touch a person with a code, most notably when Suzaku and Lelouch touch CC, they are given various different images. Thus Nunally learned the truth.

In conclusion, Lelouch has a Code, and retains the geass from his partner CC, hence the name of the anime 'Code Geass', because Lelouch is the only person who has attained this level.

I will also post this in the "Code Geass Ending" and "Code Geass Season 2 ending..." threads; why are there so many ending threads in the first place.

chinaman91

The second and most important event is when Lelouch confronted his Dad in the world of C. Before Charles was taken by the world of C, he transferred his symbol to Lelouch. Note that when Charles grabs Lelouch, he grabs him with his right hand, the same hand which has the Code on it.

I'm sorry but that's not enough to prove Loulech has Charles' code. In episode 15 of R2 Charles tried to adopt CC's code and there was a great light. But in episode 21 of R2 that light was not there. Secondly Why would Charles, who is now dying because of Loulech, give his code to him? Charles was trying to struggle Loulech not give him his code.

chinaman91

-The Code does not surface until the one who recieve it dies. Note that Geass worked on Charles, and he got shot, before he was able to stand up again as an immortal. Note also that CC was shot in the head before she came back as an immortal. Lelouch had to be stabbed for the Code to surface.

Sorry but that's incorrect. CC first died centuries ago when she was living with the nun. Not when she was first shot by the Britianian soldiers in episode 1.

I realy liked the ending. It left me satisfied but also wanting more.
What I belive from horse cart scene is that lulu was that mystery guy because C.C couldn't make origamis in first season so how could she now be able to do them. Because Lulu could do them that would make it little obvious.

And lastly to those who didn't understand Suzaku's geass thing let me explain to you. earlier when they showed scene where Lulu gave Zero's mask to Suzaku Lulu said something like "don't you think wishes are same as geass?" When Suzaku accepted Lulu's geass meaned that Suzaku accepted Lulu's wish. So no geass (power) for Suzaku. Good since if there would be 3rd season coming Suzaku wouldn't be too overpowered.

chinaman91

The second and most important event is when Lelouch confronted his Dad in the world of C. Before Charles was taken by the world of C, he transferred his symbol to Lelouch. Note that when Charles grabs Lelouch, he grabs him with his right hand, the same hand which has the Code on it.

nychi002

I'm sorry but that's not enough to prove Loulech has Charles' code. In episode 15 of R2 Charles tried to adopt CC's code and there was a great light.

No ive got my info, and ill answer every question you post... gladly :)

Note that your theory of light is not sufficient to disapprove my theory, they were in a 'space' which would manipulate and change based on people's thoughts. Light coming from a room which always looked that way, a horizon enveloped in white clouds, the sun was there for light. Also, having left the 'Sword of Akasha', her code was not removed, but hidden, which may have been Charles purpose to keep her in check and remove the Code to destroy the World of C later. And furthermore since we never saw the removal of VV's code, there is no explanation for a 'great light' to suddenly appear during this process.

Also note that in ep15 Charles is adopting CC's code so that he might immediately have contact with the World of C and follow through with his plan. The 'light' could portray the World of C enveloping the space around them.

nychi002

Secondly Why would Charles, who is now dying because of Loulech, give his code to him? Charles was trying to struggle Loulech not give him his code.

Uhh... think about it, if Lelouch stopped Charles plan, and Charles wanted to deny Schneizel's plan, it would make sense if he gave immortality to Lelouch to stop Schneizel.

chinaman91

-The Code does not surface until the one who recieve it dies. Note that Geass worked on Charles, and he got shot, before he was able to stand up again as an immortal. Note also that CC was shot in the head before she came back as an immortal. Lelouch had to be stabbed for the Code to surface.

nychi002

Sorry but that's incorrect. CC first died centuries ago when she was living with the nun. Not when she was first shot by the Britianian soldiers in episode 1.

Yep, you stated it urself, "CC first died centuries ago when she was living with the nun". She was shot and hence was given the Code.

Obviously there was a misunderstanding in the scene to which she was shot, but having said wat you said, you actually support my theory as well.

chinaman91

In this case, Lelouch got his Code from Charles, but he still holds a contract with CC, which explains why he has both.

However, Charles did not have any reasons to give his code to Lelouch.

chinaman91

When Nunally touched the presumably dead Lelouch, she got an insight into his memories. This telepathic transfer happened when other people touch a person with a code, most notably when Suzaku and Lelouch touch CC, they are given various different images. Thus Nunally learned the truth.

Nunnally did always had the ability to know the truth by touching one's hand.
Even if Lelouch did earn the code that ability to let people see his insight will only be activated after he had really died.

Kaia-Chan

However, Charles did not have any reasons to give his code to Lelouch.

Look at the above post, it disappeared while i was editing it...

Kaia-Chan

Nunnally did always had the ability to know the truth by touching one's hand.

That is based on the fact that when one is diabled, the other senses are heightened. Note that touching that hand of someone would for a blind person indicate them of any slight fear, which would discern truth from lie. When finding a truth, it is based on a 'truth' on the spot, she wouldnt be able to see any previous lies before that moment.

Furthermore, having touched Lelouch she discovered 'the truth', both wat he did in the past and present, his intentions and so forth, and was shared images of that 'life' he had, much alike to the one Lelouch and Suzaku had seen when each touched CC respectively, whether that was for the first time or wat have u.

Note that the series is called 'Code Geass' which symbolises he has both.
Furthermore the series has R2. In japanese this is pronounced like CC as in C2. Note that if Lelouch is immortal, he would be called RR, or LL based on his name, which further emphasises he lives on.

The other point of evidence is Orange. Having confronted the 'Zero', he let him bypass him to kill Lelouch... with a smile. Had he not had the smile, dont you think he would have protected Lelouch with all that loyalty he had for the royal family. He let Suzaku kill him, and was satisfied that Lelouch would come back to life, because he to had worked in the Order and had some knowledge of geass and the Code.

Would this thread last for a life time until such annoucements will be mentioned

chinaman91

Note that your theory of light is not sufficient to disapprove my theory, they were in a 'space' which would manipulate and change based on people's thoughts. Light coming from a room which always looked that way, a horizon enveloped in white clouds, the sun was there for light. Also, having left the 'Sword of Akasha', her code was not removed, but hidden, which may have been Charles purpose to keep her in check and remove the Code to destroy the World of C later. And furthermore since we never saw the removal of VV's code, there is no explanation for a 'great light' to suddenly appear during this process.

First off it doesn't prove your theory either. The World of C looks like a perpetual sunset with clouds. Never do we see the sky change from that sunset look. So why would this glowing light suddenly appear? Secondly, this is the only time/scene where this light appears so the audience is lead to believe that the light is a normal reaction for this event every time it occurs. Third, if there was no reason for it to occur then why did the animators waste time doing it? There had to be a reason why it occurred. The only explanation left is it has something to do with the Code Transfer. What's the point of surpressing the code only to take it later when you can just take it right now?

Furthermore the light that surrounded Charles and CC only appeared right when Charles tried to take the code and ended right when CC pushed Charles away signifying the connection between the light and the code transfer. If the light had continued after CC ran away then yes, I'd say it has nothing to do with it, but the light stopped right when she shoved him aside. It may not totally prove my theory but it doesn't explain yours either.

chinaman91

Uhh... think about it, if Lelouch stopped Charles plan, and Charles wanted to deny Schneizel's plan, it would make sense if he gave immortality to Lelouch to stop Schneizel.

Not really. All Charles said was something along the lines of (depending on your source this may differ) "Deny me me and what awaits you will be his, Schneizel's world." he mentioned nothing of wanting Loulech to stop Schneizel and was already mostly gone by the time he said this anyway. Charles is a man who tends to think of others as insolent and irrelevant after all.

chinaman91

Yep, you stated it urself, "CC first died centuries ago when she was living with the nun". She was shot and hence was given the Code.

Obviously there was a misunderstanding in the scene to which she was shot, but having said wat you said, you actually support my theory as well.

Actually what I meant was in episode 15 of R2 there was no clear cause of death for CC in the past. All we really see is her laying next to a pool of blood. She could have been stabbed, which given the setting seems more likely. So to say she was "shot" implied reference to the only other scene where we see CC shot and killed, episode 1 of R1.

In an unrelated matter, suicide is a sin in some christian sects. So I wonder how exactly the nun died? Did she not care or did she belong to a different sect?

chinaman91

The other point of evidence is Orange. Having confronted the 'Zero', he let him bypass him to kill Lelouch... with a smile. Had he not had the smile, dont you think he would have protected Lelouch with all that loyalty he had for the royal family. He let Suzaku kill him, and was satisfied that Lelouch would come back to life, because he to had worked in the Order and had some knowledge of geass and the Code.

How about the idea that Jeremiah knew the truth behind Zero Requiem and agreed with it. Plus, as you say, he's extremely loyal. If Loulech says "you have to let me die" he'd have to do it. Jeremiah smiled because the Zero Requiem was Loulech's grand plan and this was the final step. It was going off uninterrupted which was what his master wanted. Had he not smiled it would have shown that he didn't agree with Zero Requiem but was still following his master's orders. And if Jeremiah wasn't in on the plan at all he wouldn't not have called off his guards in the first place, or he would have looked to Loulech who was the original Zero so who was this imposter, like some of the Black Knights did. Jeremiah knew it was Suzaku in the Zero costume. That means he was in on the plan, but it doesn't prove that he knew Loulech would become immortal (if that's even true).

Wow you guys have left me in a state of !

To nychi002, eddokun, Will, and especially Kaia-Chan thank you so much for your wonderful support and agreeing with my opinion, lmao! I admit defeat and completely surrender to your knowledge of Code Geass, this is not without feeling like doing this .

It's just so nice to see all of you scrutinizing my comment and making me look like a complete fool, lol. I need a moment to collect my thoughts and try to recover from being condemned.

Seriously though, you guys rock and I don't stand a chance in hell of winning this battle so I will gracefully put aside my boxing gloves and admit defeat. You guys stated a lot of valid points and I won't over look them. Since the ending was an open one, my desired end is that Lulu is alive and went off somewhere to live in peace with C.C.

You've won this round but I won't loose next time!

@ Katelyn: Sorry, I didn't mean to make some one feel like I was trampling them. I just wanted to illustrate that there is more evidence pointing one way then the other.

@~Katelyn

lol you know i didn't mean to do that did you read my whole post? ^^;;; i did wish for similar thing in the end all i said was they didn't give us enough evidence to support either of the theory and the writer is refusing to give us a clear answer -_- which makes people go crazy thinking their theory is correct

but i don't think we tried to make you look like a fool just wanted to let you see how we thought differently and why with the reasons from the series xD

btw i love the use of your onions they are so cute

nychi002

Secondly, this is the only time/scene where this light appears so the audience is lead to believe that the light is a normal reaction for this event every time it occurs.

Yep, you said it urself, is the only scene where this light appears. Also note noth Charles and CC are centre stage, this denotes that this is the highlight of this particular scene. The light came from the room itself, how was Charles meant to take the code from VV then if he wasnt in the room with the 'great light'?

nychi002

Third, if there was no reason for it to occur then why did the animators waste time doing it?

If you didnt notice, the anime is full of symbolism, and uses mise-en-scene to the full extent. Notice the music change when her Code is trying to be taken away, its meant to make the audience sympathetic. But no such thing happened to VV right? CC was important to the audience, but not VV!?

nychi002

Furthermore the light that surrounded Charles and CC only appeared right when Charles tried to take the code and ended right when CC pushed Charles away signifying the connection between the light and the code transfer.

That light may have been the summoning of the World of C so he could initiate his plan. As you stated it began as the transfer occured and disappeared after separating.

nychi002

Not really. All Charles said was something along the lines of (depending on your source this may differ) "Deny me me and what awaits you will be his, Schneizel's world." he mentioned nothing of wanting Loulech to stop Schneizel and was already mostly gone by the time he said this anyway. Charles is a man who tends to think of others as insolent and irrelevant after all.

My bad, Charles didnt give it to him, he took it from him. Like 'Lia-Lawliet' had stated in the other thread:

Lia-Lawliet

I don't think Charles gave Lelouch his code, but that Lelouch took it from him, just as Charles himself did to V.V

nychi002

All we really see is her laying next to a pool of blood.

She was shot by the Nun, hence dying before she had revived due to the Code. Even if she was stabbed like you had said, or died for any reason, that would prove the theory of having to die first before the Code surfaces. This theory cant be disapproved, for everyone who has had the Code died before having it Surfaced.\

nychi002

So I wonder how exactly the nun died? Did she not care or did she belong to a different sect?

She was immortal, and wanted to die!? It wouldnt matter wat her beliefs are, being tired of life is a totally different matter, one which obviously haunted her.

nychi002

How about the idea that Jeremiah knew the truth behind Zero Requiem and agreed with it. Plus, as you say, he's extremely loyal. If Loulech says "you have to let me die" he'd have to do it.

Dont you think with all that loyalty he wouldnt do it unless he knew he would be alive in the end.

Having worked in the Order, he had access to information regarding Geass and the Code.

^just to talk about your last part of Jeremiah

i don't think he knew about the code... sure he could have had the information (even this which i doubt) but he does not know what happened in the world of C only suzaku, lulu, and CC is aware of what happened there... so how in the world would Jeremiah come to conclusion that lulu recieved the code or took the code from charles? O-o i think its more like his loyalty and understanding of lulu's grand plan that he let it work the way lulu wanted it to...

as for everything else... the writer left it open ended with alot of questionable parts just to satisfy both sides i believe... but i don't think the arguing and fighting will ever stop unless they come out the the real statement about it...

there are bunch of hints as to lulu being alive but those hints are also so vague anyone can argue against it right? like how did lulu recieve/take the code from charles? O-o lulu didn't do anything to charles, charles only grabbed lulu by his neck... also nunally seeing images... did she really see those images? or was she just learning her brother's truth with her ability to see the truth (sure when she was blind she had the power i think she still does since shes been blind for so long i don't think you lose something right away like that) and they just exaggerated that part... or CC talking they really made it look like she was talking to the sky but put a driver there covering his face O_O!@

all in all i guess both side can be satisfied and think whatever they want...

the point i want to get across is i really do not think lulu knew that he recieved the code (IF HE RECIEVED IT AND IS ALIVE) because his grand plan i really think he was going to sacrifice himself... but it worked out in such way so he decides to hide himself from the rest of the world... because i don't think he can have such dramatic exit thinking his gonna b alive... nor would CC cry for no reason if that is such

eddokun

the point i want to get across is i really do not think lulu knew that he recieved the code

Thats not to say he doesnt have it, but i believe you on that one, i believe he truly thought he was going to die, until he came back alive... like almost every other character in the series.