__THISRES__88794.jpg "time oblivion by `Danalm 2 weeks 2 days ago")
bye bro! Finding the Gay Gene
Well, here is the question: If you could determine that your child will be born homosexual- would you want to?
First, read this article: (originally I posted 3 articles, but this one covers all the info, very well I might add).
Is Your Baby Gay?
If you haven't done so, read the article. I don't want to sit here and read 50 comments on how homosexuality isn't genetic. That debate can be saved for another thread. Again, read the article- please- before responding.
Alright, now here is the thing. If you could tell your baby would come out gay- would you? Why? Do you think it is a disease that needs to be fixed? What would change once the child were born? How would you try to deactivate the gay gene? What do you think of this research?
And in the bonus round: If you're religious and you want to claim that all gays are evil- isn't messing with God's natural work evil, too?
I'm going to sit back and watch for a while before I add my two cents.
First, read this article: (originally I posted 3 articles, but this one covers all the info, very well I might add).
Is Your Baby Gay?
If you haven't done so, read the article. I don't want to sit here and read 50 comments on how homosexuality isn't genetic. That debate can be saved for another thread. Again, read the article- please- before responding.
Alright, now here is the thing. If you could tell your baby would come out gay- would you? Why? Do you think it is a disease that needs to be fixed? What would change once the child were born? How would you try to deactivate the gay gene? What do you think of this research?
And in the bonus round: If you're religious and you want to claim that all gays are evil- isn't messing with God's natural work evil, too?
I'm going to sit back and watch for a while before I add my two cents.
#560020 Quote Report Edited by ~LenasLover 1 year 9 months ago
Ooohh! (inhale, exhale) took me 15 min to read all. Ok. interesting topic! As for the first article, they haven't really tested it in human babies. just rams ( interesting though. didn't know it could happen to animals.) but the theory of being able to tell wether your baby will b gay. I believe that. is it really based on dna? and last, abortions shouldnt b made just because you know your baby will b gay.
"Listen to your heart. Even though its on the left, its always right"
me & my emoticon
"click the tipi"
Just as the article states, the first thing that comes to mind is Gattaca (or however it's spelled) i saw that movie, and it was pretty good, but just as the movie explains, just because everything is predetermined, it wont mean it will be that way.
Who know's what will happen in the future. At the rate things are going now, we'll be able to "make" children with whatever qualities, characteristics, looks, and personalities we want.
As for a "gay gene" I dunno. I read an article attributing soy in foods as a current theory...but really only geared toward male gays. Soy has a natural female horomone in it and is in 60% of all processed foods we eat and some natural foods as well.
I work with disabled children, mentally and physically. And to see what these children turned out to be leaves me kinda believing that one can have a "gay gene". If you can have children that are born with butterfly skin or born with chimarism, why not be born gay? I'm still 50/50 on the subject, so...who knows.
As for a "gay gene" I dunno. I read an article attributing soy in foods as a current theory...but really only geared toward male gays. Soy has a natural female horomone in it and is in 60% of all processed foods we eat and some natural foods as well.
I work with disabled children, mentally and physically. And to see what these children turned out to be leaves me kinda believing that one can have a "gay gene". If you can have children that are born with butterfly skin or born with chimarism, why not be born gay? I'm still 50/50 on the subject, so...who knows.
I skimmed through the article but I did read the part where the scientists managed to alter the ram's sexual orientation and so forth.
If I could tell my baby is going to come out gay, then I would never change. If that is the way my baby's genes are oriented, I am more than accepting of it. The fact that I don't view homosexuality as a disease helps, too. If it was a cancer gene, different story. But this is homosexuality, not a disease, to me at least. What's wrong about my baby loving another person of the same sex? Like I said, I do not think it is a disease that needs to be fixed.
I think this research is done for the sake of homophobes since they are the ones who view homosexuality as a disease. It might or might not be due to genes, but definitely not a disease. People just won't accept the fact that a person can love someone of the same sex. They think it's the law of nature that people should be straight. It's not. It's not the law of nature that a man should always marry a woman. It's not the law of nature that everyone should be straight. This whole "man must always love a woman" is nothing but a "social law." Homosexuality did not just pop out of a flowerbed in the 21st century. It existed long ago.
For something to be classified as a disease (in my opinion), it must infringe on the person's life in a negative way. Pretty much like how cancer is a disease because it kills you. Homosexuality does not harm the person. People don't die or suffer because they love someone of the same sex. Homosexuals only feel isolated, not because they are gay, but because other people can't accept them for who they are. In other words, it's their peers who make them suffer, not homosexuality itself. Scientists should just stop at trying to find a way to alter genes. My suggestion? Change people's attitudes toward homosexuality instead.
If I could tell my baby is going to come out gay, then I would never change. If that is the way my baby's genes are oriented, I am more than accepting of it. The fact that I don't view homosexuality as a disease helps, too. If it was a cancer gene, different story. But this is homosexuality, not a disease, to me at least. What's wrong about my baby loving another person of the same sex? Like I said, I do not think it is a disease that needs to be fixed.
I think this research is done for the sake of homophobes since they are the ones who view homosexuality as a disease. It might or might not be due to genes, but definitely not a disease. People just won't accept the fact that a person can love someone of the same sex. They think it's the law of nature that people should be straight. It's not. It's not the law of nature that a man should always marry a woman. It's not the law of nature that everyone should be straight. This whole "man must always love a woman" is nothing but a "social law." Homosexuality did not just pop out of a flowerbed in the 21st century. It existed long ago.
For something to be classified as a disease (in my opinion), it must infringe on the person's life in a negative way. Pretty much like how cancer is a disease because it kills you. Homosexuality does not harm the person. People don't die or suffer because they love someone of the same sex. Homosexuals only feel isolated, not because they are gay, but because other people can't accept them for who they are. In other words, it's their peers who make them suffer, not homosexuality itself. Scientists should just stop at trying to find a way to alter genes. My suggestion? Change people's attitudes toward homosexuality instead.
Think you got what it takes to be part of The Paper People?
1 year 9 months ago
Interesting, but before I make a comment, I should clarify that I place no "value" on a human's sexuality, be they gay, bi, hetero, or like goats--all the same to me. I never developed a moral trait to codify these behaviors and judge them against a predominate culture. All the same to me. BUT, I have no problem ridiculing any fundamentalist attitude with slurs and what not. I have my lack of sexual morality as my morality, so don't force me to accept another.
First, I find the science in the article weighted and bias on alleged evidence that has not undergone double-blind testing over a large sampling of humans. Furthermore, I see no logic, be it inductive or deductive with a base case of proven natural evolution. IMO, humans were constructed and designed for male/female relationships: I have an "outie" and she has an "inny." Women bare children and men don't Simple evolutionary dynamic. Given this, I don't believe in a gay gene.
My rational is based on the evolutionary structure of humans and nature vs. nurture during childhood develop. As mentioned males and females are designed to procreate the species, and by natural law, homosexuality is abhorrent. Nature vs. nurture defines the foundation for the developmental child. In modern times, a person has enough information to justify their decision to be gay, particularly in the Age of Political Correctness. In many places, gay is en vogue. Now where does nature play in? Natural law could override a "forced" environment that was excessively gay. Humans have an incredible ability to either adapt (nurture) or revolt (nature), and most of the time, human instinct kicks in and the end result is male-female copulation.
I can't answer the question truly since I don't believe children can be born gay. For the sake of discussion, if by some Act of God, I had a child that was gay, I would not care (remember: I have no moral development to codify whether this is "bad or "good--such judgments don't apply).
From the religious side, I'm a Jew and Levitical Law frowns on homosexuality, but God has stated over and over that we have free moral agency. Quite the conundrum.
Pet Peeve: The term "homophobia." I see it used out of context all of the time. A "phobia" implies an unusual, unreasonable and excessive fear. "Homophobia" would then mean a person was fearful to the point of paranoid when broached with the concept of homosexuality or was around a homosexual. Does this happen frequently? No, only the liberal media blathers it around to disallow freedom of expression. A person for whatever reasons (faith, culture, or personal preference) MAY NOT like homosexuals or the concept. They are NOT homophobic; they are merely expressing the moral stance on the subject. As the saying goes "You can't please all the people all the time, just some of the people some of the time." If you are gay, accept it and move on and don't worry what other's think. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're exempt from being an asshole.
Regardless, I love ya, LenasLover! *kiss-kiss* Good thread!
PS: I wrote this on Ambien--pardon any typos.
EDIT: Fixed some typos in the morning.
First, I find the science in the article weighted and bias on alleged evidence that has not undergone double-blind testing over a large sampling of humans. Furthermore, I see no logic, be it inductive or deductive with a base case of proven natural evolution. IMO, humans were constructed and designed for male/female relationships: I have an "outie" and she has an "inny." Women bare children and men don't Simple evolutionary dynamic. Given this, I don't believe in a gay gene.
My rational is based on the evolutionary structure of humans and nature vs. nurture during childhood develop. As mentioned males and females are designed to procreate the species, and by natural law, homosexuality is abhorrent. Nature vs. nurture defines the foundation for the developmental child. In modern times, a person has enough information to justify their decision to be gay, particularly in the Age of Political Correctness. In many places, gay is en vogue. Now where does nature play in? Natural law could override a "forced" environment that was excessively gay. Humans have an incredible ability to either adapt (nurture) or revolt (nature), and most of the time, human instinct kicks in and the end result is male-female copulation.
I can't answer the question truly since I don't believe children can be born gay. For the sake of discussion, if by some Act of God, I had a child that was gay, I would not care (remember: I have no moral development to codify whether this is "bad or "good--such judgments don't apply).
From the religious side, I'm a Jew and Levitical Law frowns on homosexuality, but God has stated over and over that we have free moral agency. Quite the conundrum.
Pet Peeve: The term "homophobia." I see it used out of context all of the time. A "phobia" implies an unusual, unreasonable and excessive fear. "Homophobia" would then mean a person was fearful to the point of paranoid when broached with the concept of homosexuality or was around a homosexual. Does this happen frequently? No, only the liberal media blathers it around to disallow freedom of expression. A person for whatever reasons (faith, culture, or personal preference) MAY NOT like homosexuals or the concept. They are NOT homophobic; they are merely expressing the moral stance on the subject. As the saying goes "You can't please all the people all the time, just some of the people some of the time." If you are gay, accept it and move on and don't worry what other's think. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're exempt from being an asshole.
Regardless, I love ya, LenasLover! *kiss-kiss* Good thread!
PS: I wrote this on Ambien--pardon any typos.
EDIT: Fixed some typos in the morning.
#560093 Quote Report Edited by $theironwarrior 1 year 9 months ago
In regards to the "gay gene", I wouldn't have it changed. Eliminating individual traits of humans, in my eyes, is no different than allowing genocide to freely occur through out the world -- only the average mother would be making this decision. Homosexuality isn't a diseases anymore than being an optimistic individual is a disease, and there's been nothing to disprove this idea.
The research in reference to diseases is fascinating, and I think it leads to interesting opportunities; however when the idea of tailoring a fetus to meet one's own personal tastes concerning personality or asthetic physical traits will make said child no more than an accessory to anyone that can afford this idea (and desires to take advantage of the technology, of course). Plus, as the article mentioned, this technology can be a dangerous tool in the hands of certain individuals. As an example, if this technology were available in Germany post-World War era (the first one), on top of the Holocaust, the so-desired "Aryan race" could have been mass-produced (and for the love of it, I'm not saying all Germans thought wanted this). The human's varied genes are what make us so resilient; this technology could prove to be very dangerous to ourselves, generations down the road when considering this.
The research in reference to diseases is fascinating, and I think it leads to interesting opportunities; however when the idea of tailoring a fetus to meet one's own personal tastes concerning personality or asthetic physical traits will make said child no more than an accessory to anyone that can afford this idea (and desires to take advantage of the technology, of course). Plus, as the article mentioned, this technology can be a dangerous tool in the hands of certain individuals. As an example, if this technology were available in Germany post-World War era (the first one), on top of the Holocaust, the so-desired "Aryan race" could have been mass-produced (and for the love of it, I'm not saying all Germans thought wanted this). The human's varied genes are what make us so resilient; this technology could prove to be very dangerous to ourselves, generations down the road when considering this.
I just went through it a bit and got the base idea and stoped before I died laughing XD
thats just wrong making a kid strait before they can even choose, the kids will not be right unless they have a disition in it plus how did this even start O_o
I mean come on its kind of retarded if you're baby was borin gay because if they have the gay gene that means you or you're lover have it to
gays are made by the people around them
now to the questions
I would not because kids are kids and have their own lifes I'm only a guide in their life they choose to be gay are not XD
Why? because it doesn't seem right =/
Nope The world without gays would be scary
well it says even changing the sex could be done right? so there is more than one answer
didn't you already ask that XD
I think its a load of crap personaly
XD Throws people for a loop on the bonus but most likly people will go with the retarded answer and choose to so it so the human race will live on =l
thats just wrong making a kid strait before they can even choose, the kids will not be right unless they have a disition in it plus how did this even start O_o
I mean come on its kind of retarded if you're baby was borin gay because if they have the gay gene that means you or you're lover have it to
gays are made by the people around them
now to the questions
I would not because kids are kids and have their own lifes I'm only a guide in their life they choose to be gay are not XD
Why? because it doesn't seem right =/
Nope The world without gays would be scary
well it says even changing the sex could be done right? so there is more than one answer
didn't you already ask that XD
I think its a load of crap personaly
XD Throws people for a loop on the bonus but most likly people will go with the retarded answer and choose to so it so the human race will live on =l
Well, I personally wouldn't care because I'm one of those open-minded types who accept everything (or atleast claim to). Plus I don't know what my sexual orientation is right now anyways so I can't exactly decide something like that.
Plus, like I'm sure a few other people have said, it just doesn't really seem right to be messing around with the DNA of unborn fetuses in order to tailor them to our preferences. Makes me think of Gundam Seed or something (sorry, had to throw in an anime somewhere). Getting rid of diseases is one thing but I don't think it's right to be changing someone's DNA because you feel like it.
Plus, like I'm sure a few other people have said, it just doesn't really seem right to be messing around with the DNA of unborn fetuses in order to tailor them to our preferences. Makes me think of Gundam Seed or something (sorry, had to throw in an anime somewhere). Getting rid of diseases is one thing but I don't think it's right to be changing someone's DNA because you feel like it.
1 year 9 months ago
Headline News had a blurb on this, and the "bad science" only reinforced my view that behaviors can't be coded. Behaviorism is the simplest form of psychology (Pavlovian), primarily determined by environmental factors.
I do not agree that human sciences are perfectand have the answers to all questions, though. This is fascinating topic that could have implications in science and sociology in either direction.
EDIT: Clarified last sentence.
I do not agree that human sciences are perfectand have the answers to all questions, though. This is fascinating topic that could have implications in science and sociology in either direction.
EDIT: Clarified last sentence.
#560437 Quote Report Edited by $theironwarrior 1 year 9 months ago
I dont believe in this stuff.
I just think gay guys are guys who cant get/understand girls.
we should just go to arranged marriages.
lol.
The opposite sex is such a mystery when your a kid. or at least for me it was. i think parents need to explain more when kids hit puberty and not make it uncompfartable neither lol.
I just think gay guys are guys who cant get/understand girls.
we should just go to arranged marriages.
lol.
The opposite sex is such a mystery when your a kid. or at least for me it was. i think parents need to explain more when kids hit puberty and not make it uncompfartable neither lol.
LenasLoverAnd in the bonus round: If you're religious and you want to claim that all gays are evil- isn't messing with God's natural work evil, too?
I'm going to sit back and watch for a while before I add my two cents.
And in that, we discover that religion, and government, are hipocratic.
Homosexuality is a naturally occurring anomaly, as it has been observed in other animals. However, it's an anomally nonetheless, and should be reduced or emliminated completely. It's a defect of evolution; homosexual organisms will not mate with the same organism of the opposite gender. Unless the organism can carry out asexual reproduction, their population would no replenis itself and, in time, would die out. For this reason, I would want to assure that my child will be straight. Not to mention the social problems tat could be avoided. Gays are still a minority, and thus are always being shunned and discriminated against. I would NOT want my child to be an outcast.
The homosexual members migt think I'm being a REAL bastard right here, but it's the truth. HOMOSEXUALITY IS A DEFECT, IT IS AN ANOMALLY THAT IS UNDESIRABLE. I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH SELF-ESTEEM YOU HAVE, IT IS THE TRUTH. ACCORDING TO NATURE, YOU ARE BAD, YOU ARE UNDESIRABLE.
Then again, I plan on adopting children, so this shouldn't be a problem for me.
Interesting... now all yaoi fans will make some gay babies =P ehehhehe
I don't know since when I changed to such a cold-hearted guy
I have to warm this frozen, icy, lonely heart to thaw
I like being wrapped with warmness more than anything else for sure
I'm gonna make my coming days to be filled with laughter and joy
~*taken from the song slip out from anime BECK*~
Fear Me Nails!! Painted them myself =p
Alright... I'm going to reply to some of these posts and then try to give my opinions.
Ironwarrior: While I think you make good arguments, I disagree- kind of. I think there is a possibility of a gay gene- or at least something biological about it, and I will explain a little later in this post as to why I think that. However, I know very little of science with the exception of what I learned in my remedial high school experiences along with a few University biology courses. As I graduated from college 3 years ago, I've forgotten much of it. But I will try and explain why I think the way I do.
Sam: Yeah... that is scary. ~_~
Dark: What the hell are you talking about? ^_^' Okay- I reread that... 3 times.. and uhm.. thanks, I think. Glad you don't think gay people are retarded. And I'm happy to hear you wouldn't change your gay baby. ^_^
Mugeninfinity: I think your parents need to explain a lot to you... and you may want to pay more attention in school. Especially English.
JimaZero: I'm ashamed to have really ever spoken to you, and I think I'll be dealing with you a lot less from now on.
Let me start by saying that I fully believe there are different types of gay people. I do not believe that there is one reason people become/are gay. And I'm going to leave the animals out entirely- because while I do think there is a definite correlation in homosexuality within the human race, and the animal kingdom- it will definitely pull this thread off track.
I think some people become gay over time. I know of women who were abused- emotionally or physically by men and felt they could no longer confide in them, and therefore turn to women. In the same turn, there are men and women who just simply can not find what they need or desire in the opposite sex, and so they 'switch teams' voluntarily. There are a number of reasons for a person wanting to be with the same sex under a chosen preference.
I think many people are promiscuous. There are those that are sexually bored or curious and they venture out to try whatever they can that is different. Personally, I don't really consider these people homosexual- but really where else can you put them? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.. it must be a duck.. right? Damn, I said no animals..
And I think some people are born gay. I was born gay.
*we now take a brief intermission to talk about my life experiences, which while relevant- are also boring, so I shall place them in spoilers. Skip it if you wish*
I also remember a study several years ago that came out of Berkley about physical attributes of homosexuals versus heterosexuals. They had scientific proof that you could tell someone was gay by looking at the length of their fingers. In lesbians, in their ring finger was longer than their index finger, they were gay. If they were straight, their index & ring finger would be relatively the same length. I do believe, however, that soon thereafter, another study came out to disprove this theory.
I think the sheer fact that scientists keep hammering away at this subject proves that something is there. And I think that the research is good- but on this specific subject- changing your gay baby- I am not so excited. And it really has nothing to do with being gay.
They started doing this- studying altering DNA of unborn children- quite a while ago. It was a big news story that people would be able to change the sex of their kid. This infuriates me. It also makes me angry to think that parents could change a disabled child if at all possible. Why? Because I believe all things happen for a reason and that God gives you what you are supposed to have. Humans have no right to interfere.
This is my opinion, so let me believe what I want. Thank you. :P
Ironwarrior: While I think you make good arguments, I disagree- kind of. I think there is a possibility of a gay gene- or at least something biological about it, and I will explain a little later in this post as to why I think that. However, I know very little of science with the exception of what I learned in my remedial high school experiences along with a few University biology courses. As I graduated from college 3 years ago, I've forgotten much of it. But I will try and explain why I think the way I do.
Sam: Yeah... that is scary. ~_~
Dark: What the hell are you talking about? ^_^' Okay- I reread that... 3 times.. and uhm.. thanks, I think. Glad you don't think gay people are retarded. And I'm happy to hear you wouldn't change your gay baby. ^_^
Mugeninfinity: I think your parents need to explain a lot to you... and you may want to pay more attention in school. Especially English.
JimaZero: I'm ashamed to have really ever spoken to you, and I think I'll be dealing with you a lot less from now on.
Let me start by saying that I fully believe there are different types of gay people. I do not believe that there is one reason people become/are gay. And I'm going to leave the animals out entirely- because while I do think there is a definite correlation in homosexuality within the human race, and the animal kingdom- it will definitely pull this thread off track.
I think some people become gay over time. I know of women who were abused- emotionally or physically by men and felt they could no longer confide in them, and therefore turn to women. In the same turn, there are men and women who just simply can not find what they need or desire in the opposite sex, and so they 'switch teams' voluntarily. There are a number of reasons for a person wanting to be with the same sex under a chosen preference.
I think many people are promiscuous. There are those that are sexually bored or curious and they venture out to try whatever they can that is different. Personally, I don't really consider these people homosexual- but really where else can you put them? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.. it must be a duck.. right? Damn, I said no animals..
And I think some people are born gay. I was born gay.
*we now take a brief intermission to talk about my life experiences, which while relevant- are also boring, so I shall place them in spoilers. Skip it if you wish*
SPOILER (click to view)
I also remember a study several years ago that came out of Berkley about physical attributes of homosexuals versus heterosexuals. They had scientific proof that you could tell someone was gay by looking at the length of their fingers. In lesbians, in their ring finger was longer than their index finger, they were gay. If they were straight, their index & ring finger would be relatively the same length. I do believe, however, that soon thereafter, another study came out to disprove this theory.
I think the sheer fact that scientists keep hammering away at this subject proves that something is there. And I think that the research is good- but on this specific subject- changing your gay baby- I am not so excited. And it really has nothing to do with being gay.
They started doing this- studying altering DNA of unborn children- quite a while ago. It was a big news story that people would be able to change the sex of their kid. This infuriates me. It also makes me angry to think that parents could change a disabled child if at all possible. Why? Because I believe all things happen for a reason and that God gives you what you are supposed to have. Humans have no right to interfere.
This is my opinion, so let me believe what I want. Thank you. :P
This post has been filtered for improved legibility #561051 Quote Report Edited by ~LenasLover 1 year 9 months ago
I loled at this. How can they think of something so stupid. If a guy turns gay how is that genetic if his dad had sex with a women huh?