Sex is defined only by the people commiting the act.
Some people have sex with people they met a few hours ago. Sex to those peoples means little to nothing. Just because you(not specifically YOU but you in a general sense) say its something more doesnt make it so in someone elses life. Some people wait until marraige so sex to them is obviously meaningful enough to stave off natural urges until the wedding night. Sex can be related to love, it can be related to like, it can be related to lust. Sometimes more than one of that list of three..



Oh wait, you asked me what I thought about it. Not some general fact regurgitation.

Ok..I think sex is romantic. I dont see how you can have sex with someone you have no feelings for at all. Assuming 'Romantic' includes the feeling lust, which I think it quite clearly does.

I think the decision to have sex before or after marraige is something that is left up to the individual. I personally wouldn't aprove of a promiscuous lifestyle, or sleep with someone who's had a zillion partners. Personally, sex to me is a precious commodity which is more meaningful the less spread around it is. I would feel far more special to someone who'd have never had sex before but chose me to do it with than someone who's been with so many people that Im number 9 or 10 in his line. So personally, yes, I most definetly believe sex is something intimate, important, a bonding experience, that should be shared only with your closest and most dear friend.

Virginity. As you can see from my previous statements, yes i believe Virginity is very important. Especially to me. I am still a virgin, and so is my boyfriend. We've been dating for four years, and believe me its been very very hard to not get into each others pants(Sorry if thats a bit blunt) but its a decision that we've made so that if and when we get married, we've saved it for each other. Its something we hold dear and its a reward for commiting to a relationship based on love, commitment, and compromise without the final physical indulgance.

Another thing, sex before marraige has a chance of creating a pregnancy. I dont think abortion is an effective birth control. Its ridiculously painful and it screws up your body for more than month afterward, with bleeding and odd side effects. I dont think thats worth any kind of pleasure. The pill itself has been proven to cause numerous negative side effects. Some of these side effects are: light bleeding between menstrual periods, skipped periods, nausea, weight change, bloating, increase in vaginal infections. That doest sound pleasant either. If you're not ready to face all these things: pregnancy, abortion, and unpleasant side effects of the most effective birth control, then I dont think you should be having sex before you're ready to carry a child. No matter what, its really hard to convince someone that a 16 year old(or anyone who hasnt gone out and lived on their own) is ready to take on these things. They cant even take care of themselves yet. Sure a lot of people have no problems with all this. But a lot more people do have these problems. Oh i just ran back up and saw a post detailing statistics! You can read that, and I'll move on. ^__^;

Social stress on women to be virgins more than men. I guess you're right, that is derived from the fact that women get pregnant and men do not. I think both should have the pressure to think about having sex, and all its conequences. Man or woman, in this day and age, both have an increasing responsibility towards each other in equality. If you've slept around, then you shouldnt expect virginity from someone else. If you've saved yourself, and expect the same from someone else, then thats just fine. As long as you hold to your own standards, wanting the person, who you're essentially making a commitment for the rest of your life to, to have similar morals and standards, its not unfair.

Sex is a big deal, in many ways, regardless of labeling it as such or not.
Its very similar to the veteran kayaker(darnit i JUST forgot his name, but he exists) who took on a river after a rain. He's had no problem taking on all kinds of waters before, but this time chance dealt him a hard card to play and he was washed down a small but powerful waterfall, which kept him underground. Regardless of all his experience before, it was just too overwhelming this one time and he died. Its a wonderful thrill, but has a chance of very dangerous consequences . It might put your education and future in jeapordy if it happens at the wrong time, and im not sure anything is worth risking that.

I know its hard to not have sex before you're fully capable to support a child, or take on all the consequences of an active sexual lifestyle, but it can be done. And I've never heard anyone say "damn i wish I hadn't waited til my wedding day!". But you do see a lot of people who have to pay child support, or have gone through an abortion say "I wish I had thought about it more before I slept with someone whom I wasnt willing to commit the rest of my life to"

If you're old enough, and stable enough, and on your own. Do whatever you want, but understand that all decisions you make not only affect you but the others around you so be very careful.

Im so sad to see friends who have had to go through abortions/pregnancies. When you're young, its very very hard on you. I dont think succumbing to this part of human nature is worth all the possible consequences. I had a friend named sarah my senior year of high school, and she had gotten pregnant. Because of this pregnancy, she had to get an abortion, keep it completely secret from her mother, drop out of school for a semester because she couldnt hide the bleeding and infections afterward(she made it up in the summer..) and then when she told her boyfriend she was pregnant, he left her. Now, all that simply goes back down to the fact that she had sex when she wasnt ready for the consequences of it. She was very careful with her birth control, but all that emotional and physical strain on a 17 year old are completely unnecessary, and not a sensible risk. She came out of it okay, but scarred.

Oh, every man should get a mandatory reversible vasectomy at the age of 13 and everything would be okay(pregnancywise not std-wise). Of course then some other group of people would want to bash us for implementing birth control. :) Well, I guess I went in a circle. Everyone should be allowed to do what they want in their personal lives, but its a duty also to make sure that our friends and family make choices that are in their best interest. Sure its their life, but its going to be YOUR life if your daughter comes home pregnant or your son comes home with a pregnant girlfriend. :}

I think its like skydiving. Its one of the biggest thrills in the world, but if you're not fully prepared it could maim you. xD
Excuse the corny analogies. Its a bit late and I have a raving headache. I see a few misspellings or slightly off punctuation use but please Pink-Sakura, dont kill me as I've tried my best on this late night. :)

Please remember this is MY OPINION. Please, if you wish to reply, dont be immature and bash my religion or ideas. Come back with logical but kindly put responses

Sunira, what I meant in my post is so people don't post in slangs, as in post everything in slang to the point that they can't be taken seriously because of it. So your post is fine, everyone's post so far is fine. ^^

Glad to see a lot of different views on these two subjects and there seems to be a discussion going on, so continue discussing. Just don't let things get out of hand. =]

Your jaw were wide open, clearly shocked. And yet, you try to move away "respecting my opinions" and saying "it would be a waste of my time" (since I'm a moron - that's what you think no doubt about that). Why hipocrisy always prevail? oh well ...

I don't think your a moron when did I ever say that? What I did say is that would be a waste of my time to try and argue against you since you are so very opinionated and you proved my point.

"One day you may say you love someone because it feels good and the next you will say don't because it doesn't feel good anymore."

Nobody ever said lova was eternal did them? But, if I'm not to trust my feelings and love, what is the point of going to the extent of abstinence? you contradict yourself deeply my friend. Make your mind, you either believe in love and thus believe we must practice abstinence and remain pure to our loved ones, or you don't believe in love and thus all forms of purity for love are in vain. I guess you change point of views as you need since you didn't even touch my arguments about love and sex not having any relation. BTW if love/feelings are not important, why sex would be?

Um I think you read that wrong I was saying that your stament basically expressed "One day you may say you love someone because it feels good and the next you will say don't because it doesn't feel good anymore." If you base everything off of feelings 0_o

"If love can not be expressed physically"

"can be expressed" ... yes love can be expressed, but those expressions are NOT love right? just expressions. Sex thus is an expression not love itself .. oh well I gues you will keep contradicting, you still stand your jaws were wide open after reading "Sex is not Love".

So how can you love without expressing it?
If love is not an act or expression then what is it? Can you define love perfectly? Because I don't think anyone can. I know that feeling in love and actually being in love are 2 very different things.

"I believe that you can show love through physical actions and that is what sex is for."

So ... sex is not love, is one of the ways you show it. Agreed. Love is not sex. Can you stop contradicting yourself in order to try to make a ground?

Sex is an action, expression, and showing of love. I never said that sex in its self was love. But that having sex is a way we show love.

"Sex is a wonderful thing that is apart of who we are."

Waste of time to quote your previous post entirely after this.

Why you have decided to aggressively attack me and my beliefs plus the beliefs of others I am not sure. However, I more that welcome it. I will always stand up for what I believe is right :D and for the people that can not defend themselves . Oh and BTW hypocrisy means "The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness" I have ment everything I said and I follow it.

Recommendation to others make sure to take speech and debate as well as logic when in school it often comes in handy! :)

Sunira: Personally, sex to me is a precious commodity which is more meaningful the less spread around it is. I would feel far more special to someone who'd have never had sex before but chose me to do it with than someone who's been with so many people that Im number 9 or 10 in his line. So personally, yes, I most definetly believe sex is something intimate, important, a bonding experience, that should be shared only with your closest and most dear friend.

Oh wow you have it! YAY *does a happy dance* I could hug you XD That is exactly what I was trying to say.

*thumbs up* Yeah I mostly agree with what you last said . (I don't think you a moron :P) I still think sex and love are related but nothing is going to change that for me. I like how you pointed out people that could not have sex. First off I feel sorry for them because the are handicapped and secondly I know they can still express love just not in the form of sex. Amway, I really like how you visibly came down a notch and don't see to be so offense towards me and I thanks you for that :D

Sex, to me, is something that can be treated as something special or as something as a desire... it just depends on the peopple I guess, or even the mood.

If you're doing it with someone you really like then that's great, it's something special and la di da.
Of course it can also be treated as a step for relationships - "the start all and end" all if you get what I mean ;)
There's just too many ways to view sex, especially in our modern world.

I just feel that sex should be something enjoyable, not a burden, and as long as both parties are having 'fun' then so be it.

'Sex after marriage' to me is, well, a little unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, I have respect for those who does that but to me, it's almost like having an excuse to marry if you get what I mean. I know religious people are a real pusher, but I'm not so it doesn't matter to me, but virginity is something that should be taken seriously but to an extent.

I don't know about you but virginity is definitely not a 'trend' in high schools. It almost bad to be a virgin. It's as though the whole world (media etc) is pushing both guys and girls to loose their virginty.
Of course there are banners tv shows etc that says keep it, but we all know how effective the media can be and the type of things they're showing.

Well, that's my 2 cents in the pile.

I think sex is something natural that was created strictly for a man and a woman to show their love and devotion to each other. However, people have taken advantage of sex to rape innocent women and in rare occasions men. Which kinda makes me scared of it..

According to some religions, a woman or a man is not supposed to have any sexual relationship till marriage. Virginity is something "precious" we can say, but eventually has to go... I'm not really sure about sex since I barely talk about it with my parents, but I see it as any ordinary thing.

Ok, there's people in here that I want to hit in the face and people I want to hug and give my thumbs up to.

glad to see that some people hate religious fanatics as much as I do. And fun to see conservative little kids as well.

Well, really. To prove my point.
Sex does not prove love. Love does not relate to sex. Sex relates to lust.
Love you're family? Unless you're into incest, which I wont put you down for, that is a bit more of what love truly is.
If you love your parents, that is true love. It's love without the attachment of lust.

And we can always get even deeper and say that one can never prove love, that it's as unprovable as religion. It's something you put your faith and trust into. But you can never know for sure if that other person loves you, or if you even really love that person. but meh...

[quote]

[quote]Humans are the only race which have orgasm.[/quote]

how do we know that too? animals can't tell us that, and we aren't them, so how do we get that idea?

[/quote]

... another proven fact, sorry to inform you. Animals do not have the cerebral lobes nor connections needed to get pleasure from the nerves from the genital area, nor they do have any behaviour that exibt desire to do so. If you shut down their instincts, they pretty much won't ever make sex again. You will probably remember they only do sex when they are fertile (once 3 monthes for dogs if i'm not mistaken) and the instincts kick in.

[/quote]

Dolphins also have sex for pleasure, as do most animals which display complex social behavior, and I have gone to the zoo in spring... the monkeys look like they have lots of fun...There is also recorded cases of homosexuality in dogs, giraffes (is that right.. giraffes.. sounds right), bears, and various other animals. There is no way that could be for procreation.

I view sex as an affectionate act. To be close to someone, to consider them for childbearing (eitherside). It is society that has made it a "sin" and disgusting. I definitely believe in a certain amount of discretion, I see too many young people just having sex because: it cool, they want to be loved, they don't like themselves and think that if they have a partner they like it makes them better. There are just too many people... being idiots. I tried to find a nicer way to say that.
I don't get the whole virginity thing... my personal experience is as follows: If you end up with a virgin the are going to get curious about the grass on the other side of the fence. I have had six boyfriends who were vergins when we met *ahem*, they all ended up cheating on me :( . I'm in my first relationship with a guy who is not a virgin (he hasn't had as much experience as me, but he seems cool with it) and he hasn't strayed once in four years :) . So yeah, oooh virgin, but in the bigger picture I see them as less desirable for long term mates. I suppose if you want to break it down into science. If you control the women's sexuality you control the genetic material they have to reproduce with.

*WhiteBlaze, thanks for the fear .. where did you get all that? Your a 17 year old guy !?!?! wow...

*Pink Sakura- good topic! I love a good debate!

[quote]Ok, there's people in here that I want to hit in the face and people I want to hug and give my thumbs up to.

glad to see that some people hate religious fanatics as much as I do. And fun to see conservative little kids as well.

[/quote]
Yeah, I'm getting that vibe too...

IMO, I think WhiteBlaze needs to get laid.

Funny. i just had this talk with someone a while ago.
i think my views will be different on this subject that what i read (i didn't read it all cause some of it was mad long)
i dated a guy in HS, and well...things were not well. a lot of bad things happened that i typically don't talk about because of the way people react to them.
my virginity was stolen from me. so basically, i like to believe that it's more sacred than a lot of people say. until everything happened, i believed that i could do whatever i want, when i want. i just figured, when i'm ready, i'll do it. but things didn't go at all how i planned. so, my feelings towards it have changed. i personally plan on waiting till marrage. i don't expect everyone to do the same, but after all the events that i went through, i became far more religious. when you strip away all meaning that humans have placed upon sex, it's for baring children, and carrying on the species. plain and simple. humans have placed other attachments to it such as the emotional and beautiful aspect, as well as doing it purly for pleasure. the way i see it though, if you're not ready to possibly have children, then you shouldn't do it. not so much meaning wait till your married, but meaning wait till your older. of course my beliefs are different for reasons most people wouldn't even begin to understand. i now believe that it SHOULD be about love and not just sheer pleasure. and i read somewhere in th ebeginning of this thread, someone mentioned aboutit only being lust. well, i have to strongly disagree. maybe the whole event is lustful, but if you ask me, there typically is some sort of love. people who are married love each other (or should) and when they do it, it's not just an act of lust. yeah, most teenagers today are about the lust and the pleasure. screw the emotional crap. they just want to feel good. but it's not the case for everyone and certainly not me.

as for women getting the pressure of being virgins...it pisses me off. women are called whores, sluts, ets if they aren't virgins, and guys get a score card for every girl they screw. this is something i've ranted about to people numerous times, because it's part of the cause for my change in views. onw guy i dated was only concerned about having sex with girls, and planned on doing whatever it took to do so.i think part part of the reason that guys have different views is because they don't have the possibilty of getting pregnant. they just do what they do and move onto the next. i don't think my husband should HAVE ot be a virgin, but it would be a comfoting plus. just because i'd know where he's been. but i mean, it wouldn't force my decision when a guy asked me to marry him, unless he had a track record longer than the fucking decleration of independance. i understand how society works, and so i respect that even if it's not something i actually agree with.

now i'm going to take my time and actually go back and read the rest of the posts that were made here, so this post may be heavily edited in a bit xD

EDIT:
about animals not having orgasms...they do.
pigs have orgasms that last up to half an hour. dolphins have sex for fun. not ALL animals have orgasms, but many of them do. and not all o fthem go around screwing other animlas to have said orgasms.

And the reason about we ''enjoying'' sex because we are smarter, if I'm not mistaken, the part of our brain that stimulates pleasure related to sex is quite primitive. I would guess that the only ''upper hand'' we have in the sense that we are smarter, would be the thinking part where fantasies and fetishes come from

extremely good and funny point lol and i totally agree with you on that. i don't really have much to discuss in terms of it, just that i agree wiht you in the fact that we're not smarter. and yeah, the pleasure part of your brain is very primitive. in fact, that and the emotional part of your brain is as well. it just gets pushed around by the more developed parts telling that part what emotion to feel.

Sex will never be selfish.

careful with your words. selfish one-sided sex is called rape, which i'm sure you know. and you have no idea the kind of mental scaring that can do to someone. so vefore you go and state things like that, which i know was not your intent, but seriously, think first. sex can be more than selfish. and not in terms of rape. iike i said, i dated a guy that would do anything to sleep with women. he told me he loved me to get my emotions running and building so i would. he tried to manipulate me into believing he loved me, and i loved him so that it was okay. lucky for me i'm not stupid.

don't get me wrong, i don't think sex i sthe devils work and all that catholic mumbo-jumbo. i just believe it should be held higher than society makes it. which is just something to pretty much do when your bored. it's like a commerical..."hey kids! are you bored? grab a partner, and have some FUN! here's how!" every movie, and pretty much every TV show has some form of sex in it. and it personally bothers me to think that children are learning about it at a younger age. when my bosses daughter, who was 8 or 9 at the time, was playing with silly puddy and came over to me and said..."guess what this is!" and i said..."a snake?" and she said, "no stupid, it's a penis" i was speechless. maybe i'm old fashioned inthinnking that children should be children and not young adults until they need to be. sex complicated life in a whole new way when you first learn about it. and i don't mean that in a nagative way. but when you first learn of it you're typically like "o__o" but it doesn't come up for a while. then you hit late high school and early middle school, and all hell breaks lose among sexually active teenagers. again, i don't think it's wrong, but i used to turn a hallway in my HS and there would be some guy screwing some girl up against the lockers. and you just ignored it llike it wasn't there. even if it was YOUR locker. and thats NOT an exaggeration. part of that is the lack of knowledge, but i don't think that means they should learn while they're still that young.

Sex before marriage all comes down to lust and lust is selfish!

That quote's from a little way back, but just wanted to address it real quick. Sex before marriage does not necessarily come down to lust. It can be just as much about love as sex after marriage. Marriage is more a Christian thing. I'm not Christian. The act of *official* marriage means very little to me. Before I was married, I had already vowed to be with my husband (boyfriend at the time). And he had vowed that to me. It doesn't take a ceremony to bind two people together, it takes devotion from the people involved. Even in the case that two people have not vowed to be together permanently, it isn't necessarily an act of lust. It could be, but it could also be an expression of love. Marriage doesn't have to exist in order for love to be valid.

Also, on the subject of pregnancy, if you're smart and careful, that's really not a risk. Birth control is not infallible, there's always that tiny chance, but you can improve your chances by using two forms. Being on the pill as well as using a condom for example. There are many different forms of birth control, and yes, the pill can have side effects. BUT, there are a ton of different kinds of birth control pills and likely there's one out there that will work for most people. I'm not trying to push people who are uncomfortable with it toward having sex. But I think "you shouldn't have sex till you're ready to have kids" is pretty ridiculous. (no offense intended) What about married people that don't want kids? They shouldn't have sex? Or if you're just not ready, or not financially able to support a child, something like that. Just because someone is married doesn't mean they're fit or ready to have a child.

Quotes are out of order, I know.

IMO, I think WhiteBlaze needs to get laid

Um.....you haven't read anything I wrote did you 0.o or maybe you did -_-
Anyways, I could of had sex multiple times already but I have said no every time. Quite frankly I don't think I should unless I can 1. Devote the rest of my life to the girl otherwise the act was meaningless and I am just another random partner. 2. I am able and ready to take care of a kid. Another large reason that I wont have sex until marriage is that I am totally against "have sex cause its cool" that is what society taught us and well society is often wrong on issues. I could go on anther long winded report as to why society is bad and how they try to manipulates us all but I won't XD

The main points I wanted to get across before this large debate began lol is as follows,

1. Sex before marriage often end up being a bad choice just look at the statistics.

2. I believe saving sex for marriage is not only a good choice but the safest one.

There you have it. Now to get one thing straight. I have nothing against people that have had sex before they got married. Do I think its the best thing for them; no I don't. But I know it happens and it is everyone's personal choice to decided for them selves if they want to remain a virgin until they get married. Lastly I don't think less of people that have had sex before marriage; if I did I would be screwed XD

Dolphins also have sex for pleasure, as do most animals which display complex social behavior, and I have gone to the zoo in spring... the monkeys look like they have lots of fun...There is also recorded cases of homosexuality in dogs, giraffes (is that right.. giraffes.. sounds right), bears, and various other animals. There is no way that could be for procreation.

Wow learn something new every day. Very interesting facts fooblued

so basically, i like to believe that it's more sacred than a lot of people say. until everything happened, i believed that i could do whatever i want, when i want. i just figured, when i'm ready, i'll do it. but things didn't go at all how i planned.

Wow Kalico I loved your story. I meant no that things turned out bad for you, but the message behind it. That things don't always go as we plan and that sex and love go hand in hand :) I do feel deeply sorry that your virginity was taken from you, but it makes me glad to see you can talk about it so that it doesn't happen to others.

don't get me wrong, i don't think sex is the devils work and all that catholic mumbo-jumbo. i just believe it should be held higher than society makes it. which is just something to pretty much do when your bored. it's like a commerical..."hey kids! are you bored? grab a partner, and have some FUN! here's how!"

That is so true its not even funny.

Birth control is not infallible, there's always that tiny chance, but you can improve your chances by using two forms. Being on the pill as well as using a condom for example.

According to The FDA the pills still leave on average a %5 chance of pregnancy and condoms range from %20-%40.

Now I bet you are all wondering why me a 17 year old( be 18 in 2 months wooohooo) guy. Knows all of this and is firm against it. The main reason I am against it all has to do with the fact that I am tired of guys being looked down on for screwing over girls and I don't want to be one of those guys no matter what. Why you might ask? Well Because I am the product of that very thing happening. I don't often tell people about my background but let me share with you a little bit. My mom some 18 years ago was dating a guy they had a steady relation ship and all plus they planned to get married. However they had an active sexual life. So one day my mom talks to my "dad" and tells him that he is going to have a little kid, namely me. So you know what; he left us. That's right he packed his bags and left and never came back. He left my mom all alone with me inside of her. No remorse no regrets, nothing. Obviously my mom had the option of abortion but I am sure glad she didn't take it. However we barley had enough money to live of off while she was raising me. I didn't really notice it to much when I was a kid. Cause I had nothing to compare to. Luckily she did got married to my current dad when I was 9 and life has been allot better since then.

So now I hope you all understand why I am against pre-marital sex. I know this stuff by researching and I get my facts from government surveys and scientific repots, not religious institutions. Though the churches that do put out information have to be %100 accurate or they could be sued; just for those of you thinking they were unreliable. And If you haven't guessed it by now I am a devote Christian by my own choosing it's the only religion that makes any sense to me; plain and simple. The reason I just now told you this is because people are extremely prejudice when it comes to religion and I don't agree with that at all. I think everyone should have the chance to be heard no matter what they believe in.

That's all folks! I bid you a due.

Well... I'd rather want my mate to be a virgin. But, meh. I'll only have sex when I'm ready. People who know me know that I like to anylize situations before I act. I think it's safest to have sex after you're married, but I'd have it before marriage if my mate and I are ready.

Thumbs up for you, do what you believe is right, respect others and be honest. No way to go wrong with that IMHO. I was offended by your "jaw break" but hey, everybody have a different oppinion =/

Um I really had no intention of posting on this topic anymore but I just had to get this strait. I have no idea what you mean by jaw break 0.O I remember saying my "jaw dropped" which is an expression of surprise. So um yeah still a little confused....

WhiteBlaze: being married doesn't magically make people good parents, it doesn't magically make them want kids, Hell it doesn't even mean (necessarily) that people are actually devoted to each other. A lot of marriages end in divorce. And a lot of husbands leave wives with children. Waiting to have sex after marriage does not solve the problem of abandonment.