__THISRES__100357.jpg "Trick or Treat by ~chanelqueen17 3 weeks 6 days ago")
Did Jesus Really Existed?
Omnidevil
but do you need faith to do good?
do you really need a religion and a divine being to do good? Is compassionate behavior always and will be dominated simply because you believe in a divine being? Why can't the same exists for the same reward? Say I do good for the rest of my life, in the end I receive nothing from"God" cause I do not believe. Would that have been fair? A judgement bestowed upon those who do not rightfully deserved it?
It's not really needing a religion to do good.. it's referring to religion as guide to do what's good. I've always believed that if it weren't for religion, humans would have gone completely astray. People will be going in his or her own path and everyone is doing what "he believes is right" since there is no religion, since there is no doctrine that would give us a set of guidelines to follow, we would be acting on our own set of values be it evil or good. Religion isn't really the driving force of people to do good,it's their faith in it. Religion just provides a set of moral codes that justifies or condemns human behavior. And about doing good for the rest of your life and not getting anything because you didn't believe, actually, I asked that to my teacher back when I was like 4 years old. I asked her "What about the *name of religion here* how will they be saved if they don't believe in God?" and what she answered me was this (which I still believe until now) Nobody knows what happens after death. That's what makes it so susceptible to assumptions. We have our religion as a form of security blanket. It's like the guide we have on this earth that we did what we were supposed to do so that when we die, we won't have any regrets. Whatever happens after that, is beyond our comprehension.
I'm a catholic but I'm not really sure if there's anything in the bible that states those who do not believe in God shall not enter the gates of heaven. And even if there is such words in there, I think what it means is that those who do not believe in God. As in the divine being in general and not the "God" exclusively in the views of the catholic church.
Ack... as I type this, I'm getting more and more confused with what I say... >.<
Pyreleaf has claimed George Koizumi
Come state your claim with the rest of the Rabid Fangirls!
- looking through the distant sky-
It is very hard argue if Jesus existed or not. If there is anyone with a time machine that will go back and prove either of those answers right please do so and avoid us the nonesense of arguing faith against fact since until this point none of us know which is right. Anyone can make a valid argument about the existence of Jesus and anyone can make a valid argument that he didn't exist. I think no matter what you believe remember that the teachings of the new testament do not have to be only religious, they are always words of wisdom. So no matter who wrote them, or who said them; you should take a look at the oldest book ever written, it doesn't hurt. "Accordingly I say to YOU, Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened. "For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened." Luke 11, 9-10
Hollow
"weaving a tale of destruction that will echo throughout eternity..."
Join the fight against werewolves...
Why must you disturb the peace? -_-
Did Jesus exist? Yes. Do I believe he did the stuff people have claimed he did for the thousands of years? Nope.
Yes I'm atheist and the idea of an all powerful creator that flaws or favors or plays games with its creations just makes it sound too.. MORTAL. Eh? Well in the Garden of Eden, someone mainly God made the serpant. God created evil? And why would he trick his poor innocent, unknowing creations into exiling themselves? When he created Eden, it was supposed to be perfect. Perfect as in absent of flaws/evil?
The whole creation of the world/universe thing sounds too much like the Greek "mythology" (It WAS a religion people... Therefore NOT mythology. Just a DEAD religion...) Basically in the Greek "myths" man was created by sprinkling rocks on the floor which sprouted into men. (Sand-Rocks? We can believe one and think the other one is a total bogus piece of crap?)
Perhaps my greatest argument is that women were created after men and basically FOR men (also similar to the Greek relgion/cultre.) If anything, God is NOT male and the fact that thousands of years ago, the world was a man's world, therefore the writers of history can say anything they want about females.
Because if you believe that God molded men in his own image, then you can't believe in aliens and UFOs... And that's just impossible that in this vast universe, there is only ONE planet with life on it.
Plus no religious person has been able to explain to me where dinosaurs fit in. I mean there were "beasts" before man, but they figured thousands of species of 30 feet tall creatures roaming the world for thousands of years were irrelevant and should just be categorized as the "beasts" witht he hippos, parakeets, and possums? And assuming you don't believe that they lived side by side with men, (*rolls eyes*) you would then have to explain why dinosaurs became extinct before men could have a good look at them. God made another booboo and decided to wipe out his creations after playing with them? OR... Thousands of years is long enough, let's throw a rock at them/create a huge natural disaster/etc and make way for smaller, more fuzzier creatures!
Did Jesus exist? Yes. Do I believe he did the stuff people have claimed he did for the thousands of years? Nope.
Yes I'm atheist and the idea of an all powerful creator that flaws or favors or plays games with its creations just makes it sound too.. MORTAL. Eh? Well in the Garden of Eden, someone mainly God made the serpant. God created evil? And why would he trick his poor innocent, unknowing creations into exiling themselves? When he created Eden, it was supposed to be perfect. Perfect as in absent of flaws/evil?
The whole creation of the world/universe thing sounds too much like the Greek "mythology" (It WAS a religion people... Therefore NOT mythology. Just a DEAD religion...) Basically in the Greek "myths" man was created by sprinkling rocks on the floor which sprouted into men. (Sand-Rocks? We can believe one and think the other one is a total bogus piece of crap?)
Perhaps my greatest argument is that women were created after men and basically FOR men (also similar to the Greek relgion/cultre.) If anything, God is NOT male and the fact that thousands of years ago, the world was a man's world, therefore the writers of history can say anything they want about females.
Because if you believe that God molded men in his own image, then you can't believe in aliens and UFOs... And that's just impossible that in this vast universe, there is only ONE planet with life on it.
Plus no religious person has been able to explain to me where dinosaurs fit in. I mean there were "beasts" before man, but they figured thousands of species of 30 feet tall creatures roaming the world for thousands of years were irrelevant and should just be categorized as the "beasts" witht he hippos, parakeets, and possums? And assuming you don't believe that they lived side by side with men, (*rolls eyes*) you would then have to explain why dinosaurs became extinct before men could have a good look at them. God made another booboo and decided to wipe out his creations after playing with them? OR... Thousands of years is long enough, let's throw a rock at them/create a huge natural disaster/etc and make way for smaller, more fuzzier creatures!
#294395 Quote Report Edited by `Red-Eclipse 3 years 5 months ago
Phoenix Is BACK!
Maybe. He probably existed but I doubt he ever walked on water or came back from the dead.
Part of the reason I'm an Atheist also.puppychow16Why must you disturb the peace? -_-
Did Jesus exist? Yes. Do I believe he did the stuff people have claimed he did for the thousands of years? Nope.
Yes I'm atheist and the idea of an all powerful creator that flaws or favors or plays games with its creations just makes it sound too.. MORTAL. Eh? Well in the Garden of Eden, someone mainly God made the serpant. God created evil? And why would he trick his poor innocent, unknowing creations into exiling themselves? When he created Eden, it was supposed to be perfect. Perfect as in absent of flaws/evil?
The whole creation of the world/universe thing sounds too much like the Greek "mythology" (It WAS a religion people... Therefore NOT mythology. Just a DEAD religion...) Basically in the Greek "myths" man was created by sprinkling rocks on the floor which sprouted into men. (Sand-Rocks? We can believe one and think the other one is a total bogus piece of crap?)
Perhaps my greatest argument is that women were created after men and basically FOR men (also similar to the Greek relgion/cultre.) If anything, God is NOT male and the fact that thousands of years ago, the world was a man's world, therefore the writers of history can say anything they want about females.
Because if you believe that God molded men in his own image, then you can't believe in aliens and UFOs... And that's just impossible that in this vast universe, there is only ONE planet with life on it.
Plus no religious person has been able to explain to me where dinosaurs fit in. I mean there were "beasts" before man, but they figured thousands of species of 30 feet tall creatures roaming the world for thousands of years were irrelevant and should just be categorized as the "beasts" witht he hippos, parakeets, and possums? And assuming you don't believe that they lived side by side with men, (*rolls eyes*) you would then have to explain why dinosaurs became extinct before men could have a good look at them. God made another booboo and decided to wipe out his creations after playing with them? OR... Thousands of years is long enough, let's throw a rock at them/create a huge natural disaster/etc and make way for smaller, more fuzzier creatures!
#294399 Quote Report Edited by ~ProgramZERO 3 years 5 months ago
Jesus existed IMO.
But he was just another man, a profet or something like that, but he existed.
But he was just another man, a profet or something like that, but he existed.
puppychow16
Plus no religious person has been able to explain to me where dinosaurs fit in. I mean there were "beasts" before man, but they figured thousands of species of 30 feet tall creatures roaming the world for thousands of years were irrelevant and should just be categorized as the "beasts" witht he hippos, parakeets, and possums? And assuming you don't believe that they lived side by side with men, (*rolls eyes*) you would then have to explain why dinosaurs became extinct before men could have a good look at them. God made another booboo and decided to wipe out his creations after playing with them? OR... Thousands of years is long enough, let's throw a rock at them/create a huge natural disaster/etc and make way for smaller, more fuzzier creatures!
Well, i will try to explain it :D (sorry for my english)
Dinosaurs were created by god like every other animal in genesis. So the dinosaurs lived with humans at the same time and there are some descriptions in the bible of some dinosaurs (im sure of one at least, JOB 40, but there are more) There is a description of a animal called Behemot, in some translation its said that its a elephant but if you take it from the original (Hebrew) you would notice that something like that is what we call a dinosaur.
And why they disappear? Well theres just one posibility, the great flood. Before the great flood ocurred, the enviroment on earth was quite different than today, that would also explain why some people lived over 900 years. Noah possibly did take dinosaurs on his ship but, due the enviromental changes they couldnt survive after that.
Thats just a little summary, we could discus hours about this. If you wanna read more about this just type in google "Bible and dinosaurs".
http://atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html
Lol Omnidevil, How can you actually take anything that comes from them serious. I mean being athiest, wouldn't the be a little bias? I would think an answer from a more nutural source would be appropiate.
No you don't, but faith can help to achieve it better or more intensely.
I believe he existed. I don’t need proof for that.
Also maybe they just didn’t have written account of him when he was alive was because of fear. Maybe it was too much for some to grasp, and if the authors of the time wrote about him, maybe they thought they would be persecuted?
Lol Omnidevil, How can you actually take anything that comes from them serious. I mean being athiest, wouldn't the be a little bias? I would think an answer from a more nutural source would be appropiate.
but do you need faith to do good?
do you really need a religion and a divine being to do good? Is compassionate behavior always and will be dominated simply because you believe in a divine being? Why can't the same exists for the same reward? Say I do good for the rest of my life, in the end I receive nothing from"God" cause I do not believe. Would that have been fair? A judgement bestowed upon those who do not rightfully deserved it?
No you don't, but faith can help to achieve it better or more intensely.
I believe he existed. I don’t need proof for that.
Also maybe they just didn’t have written account of him when he was alive was because of fear. Maybe it was too much for some to grasp, and if the authors of the time wrote about him, maybe they thought they would be persecuted?
Nirvash
Well, i will try to explain it :D (sorry for my english)
Dinosaurs were created by god like every other animal in genesis. So the dinosaurs lived with humans at the same time and there are some descriptions in the bible of some dinosaurs (im sure of one at least, JOB 40, but there are more) There is a description of a animal called Behemot, in some translation its said that its a elephant but if you take it from the original (Hebrew) you would notice that something like that is what we call a dinosaur.
And why they disappear? Well theres just one posibility, the great flood. Before the great flood ocurred, the enviroment on earth was quite different than today, that would also explain why some people lived over 900 years. Noah possibly did take dinosaurs on his ship but, due the enviromental changes they couldnt survive after that.
Thats just a little summary, we could discus hours about this. If you wanna read more about this just type in google "Bible and dinosaurs".
You do realize that Behemot describes ONE specie, whether it is a dinosaur or not. I'm talking about THOUSANDS of species the size of houses roaming around and eating each other. I seriously doubt humans could live along side the T-Rex. Then you're going to say dragons existed and that they were in fact dinosaurs... Also, dinosaurs went thought a sort of evolution or "ages" (Jurrassic, etc..) and we are to assume human did not evolve with them?
That's one large boat to fit EVERY SINGLE SPECIE of dinosaurs onto... Tell me the raptors did not eat the chickens... -_- Tell me that they could even capture/house a raptor... -_- The predatorial animals had to have ate something.. Somehow they didn't eat EACH OTHER... Funny they either didnt need to eat, or Noah actually picked up more than one pair of each species just in case the spares were needed to feed the carnivores.
Simply put, dinosaurs were not yet known to men in that time, therefore they were not recorded. True the Bible is one of the oldest sources of written documents and is very valuable in not only a religous sense.. But get real... You can't just pop up the word faith in every instance that something can't be explained. I'm not saying that everything needs to be explained either. It's just the answers religion gives is so farfetched and ridiculous it's almost laughable. Oh and as for the great flood.. There are archialogical sites that proved a flood did indeed happen.. BUT only in that certain area of the world. When you don't own cars or airplanes, the 1000 mile radius around you is "The World."
Phoenix Is BACK!
Nirvash
puppychow16
Plus no religious person has been able to explain to me where dinosaurs fit in. I mean there were "beasts" before man, but they figured thousands of species of 30 feet tall creatures roaming the world for thousands of years were irrelevant and should just be categorized as the "beasts" witht he hippos, parakeets, and possums? And assuming you don't believe that they lived side by side with men, (*rolls eyes*) you would then have to explain why dinosaurs became extinct before men could have a good look at them. God made another booboo and decided to wipe out his creations after playing with them? OR... Thousands of years is long enough, let's throw a rock at them/create a huge natural disaster/etc and make way for smaller, more fuzzier creatures!
Well, i will try to explain it :D (sorry for my english)
Dinosaurs were created by god like every other animal in genesis. So the dinosaurs lived with humans at the same time and there are some descriptions in the bible of some dinosaurs (im sure of one at least, JOB 40, but there are more) There is a description of a animal called Behemot, in some translation its said that its a elephant but if you take it from the original (Hebrew) you would notice that something like that is what we call a dinosaur.
And why they disappear? Well theres just one posibility, the great flood. Before the great flood ocurred, the enviroment on earth was quite different than today, that would also explain why some people lived over 900 years. Noah possibly did take dinosaurs on his ship but, due the enviromental changes they couldnt survive after that.
Thats just a little summary, we could discus hours about this. If you wanna read more about this just type in google "Bible and dinosaurs".
Dinosaurs did not live along the side of man. They died millions of year b4 humans came around. Creationist just want you to believe that because dinosaurs throws a litttle wrench in their theory. No one in the scientific community believes that.
Because if you believe that God molded men in his own image, then you can't believe in aliens and UFOs... And that's just impossible that in this vast universe, there is only ONE planet with life on it.
Not true at all. God is an omni-presence he has no one specific form. We see him as we want him to be. I don't think when they said, "he was created in his own image", was refering to physical apperance. On an alien world god would look like them. Hasn't anyone seen Star Trek V?
#294515 Quote Report Edited by ~Miroku4444 3 years 5 months ago
Plus, the boat would have to accomodate up to 70 million different species of animals (including species that are not visible to the eye ) Did God also create microscopic animals?
Well, that aside, it has deviated from the original topic.
technically speaking, I took a source that sounds logically appealing.
and interesting to read, I am not the one man with enough proof to denounce them of their credibility.
I hardly think that it helps with doing it better, Gandhi, a man, was without such faith, I mean, fine, he follows hinduism, or whichever, but did you think his values, those that were spawned just like Buddha's achieving his enlightment, were given to him by a preexistent teaching or foundation of a guide? I certainly doubt that.
Then again, I am not there to prove it, hence whatever he said, was left for us to discover and learn.
I believe it is a matter of character strength, I mean, I surely have seen a fair share of sinners (distinctify by the bible) in fact, all of us are. While we follow the guide, it is not within logical reasoning for us to deny our total existence as human beings. Which is what the bible or gospel would have asked no? Don't smoke, no sex, no marriage, love your enemies without prejudice, those things, maybe achievable, but it is denying ourselves.
I think religion was a basis for them to start on something, maybe a humanitarian project, but I certainly doubt it was necessary for a human to follow a religion to do any forms of good. I too worked for a short time as a charity person, I helped in local community clinics and old folks home, a member of the red cresent (kinda like the red cross), and I certainly lack a religion built background or faith, all I did was out of good will.
Well, that aside, it has deviated from the original topic.
Miroku4444http://atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html
Lol Omnidevil, How can you actually take anything that comes from them serious. I mean being athiest, wouldn't the be a little bias? I would think an answer from a more nutural source would be appropiate.
but do you need faith to do good?
do you really need a religion and a divine being to do good? Is compassionate behavior always and will be dominated simply because you believe in a divine being? Why can't the same exists for the same reward? Say I do good for the rest of my life, in the end I receive nothing from"God" cause I do not believe. Would that have been fair? A judgement bestowed upon those who do not rightfully deserved it?
No you don't, but faith can help to achieve it better or more intensely.
I believe he existed. I don’t need proof for that.
Also maybe they just didn’t have written account of him when he was alive was because of fear. Maybe it was too much for some to grasp, and if the authors of the time wrote about him, maybe they thought they would be persecuted?
technically speaking, I took a source that sounds logically appealing.
and interesting to read, I am not the one man with enough proof to denounce them of their credibility.
I hardly think that it helps with doing it better, Gandhi, a man, was without such faith, I mean, fine, he follows hinduism, or whichever, but did you think his values, those that were spawned just like Buddha's achieving his enlightment, were given to him by a preexistent teaching or foundation of a guide? I certainly doubt that.
Then again, I am not there to prove it, hence whatever he said, was left for us to discover and learn.
I believe it is a matter of character strength, I mean, I surely have seen a fair share of sinners (distinctify by the bible) in fact, all of us are. While we follow the guide, it is not within logical reasoning for us to deny our total existence as human beings. Which is what the bible or gospel would have asked no? Don't smoke, no sex, no marriage, love your enemies without prejudice, those things, maybe achievable, but it is denying ourselves.
I think religion was a basis for them to start on something, maybe a humanitarian project, but I certainly doubt it was necessary for a human to follow a religion to do any forms of good. I too worked for a short time as a charity person, I helped in local community clinics and old folks home, a member of the red cresent (kinda like the red cross), and I certainly lack a religion built background or faith, all I did was out of good will.
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Which is what the bible or gospel would have asked no? Don't smoke, no sex, no marriage, love your enemies without prejudice, those things, maybe achievable, but it is denying ourselves.
It doesnt say in the bible you cant have sex or get married. It say you can have sex untill your married.
technically speaking, I took a source that sounds logically appealing.
and interesting to read, I am not the one man with enough proof to denounce them of their credibility.
I was saying how can you take with at least a grain of salt anything an organization says about wether jesus existed or not. I mean they already made up their minds already.
#294526 Quote Report Edited by ~Miroku4444 3 years 5 months ago
Not true at all. God is an omni-presence he has no one specific form. We see him as we want him to be. I don't think when they said, "he was created in his own image", was refering tp physical apperance. On an alien world god would look like them. Hasn't anyone seen Star Trek V?
fiction is not fact.
I highly doubt that God would have modelled us to his own image althought the bible says so, if so, why would he create imperfect beings? Why should he create us with only so short to live? Ok, so they say a man can live for 1000 years, so what? It is relatively short if he created us, would it not be considered his way of making things if he wanted us live for say eternally? Would it not be good that he created superior beings? (Xmen anyone?), would he had not chosen us to look like dinosaurs? Why oh why?
Well... all those are flaws, again, we can debate that, but that is seriously debated till it stank, NOw, this thread original purpose was to ask if Jesus never existed, would there have been what we see now? Would christianity still roam free? Without being tainted by those around it? (we all know chirstianity had tie in roots with paganism, since it did occur way longer before christianity took mainstream, but again, staunch believers would not buy that now... cause they believe dinosaurs lived near us too)
Faith can be used to "believe" in everything, however, it cannot be explained.
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Miroku4444Which is what the bible or gospel would have asked no? Don't smoke, no sex, no marriage, love your enemies without prejudice, those things, maybe achievable, but it is denying ourselves.
It doesnt say in the bible you cant have sex or get married. It say you can have sex untill your married.
still how many of you follow it? I can hardly see kids who don't get laid before 15
I was saying how can you take with at least a grain of salt anything an organization says about wether jesus existed or not. I mean they already made up their minds already.
Well, it greatly depends, I took a source that seemed like a deduction, I would have no say in that to say that it is the explanation of it all.
Ok, so they made up their minds, we haven't. Though like all good people who want the easy way out, I would have said, leave everything as it is, God created everything end of story, we go on with our lives.
But I am not like that sadly.
It was an inaccurate source actually, like I said, they wanted to discredit it, hence why they must choose a side to stand on, I did not try to discredit it, rather I ask, if it was as real, would it have mattered?
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Omnidevil
Miroku4444Which is what the bible or gospel would have asked no? Don't smoke, no sex, no marriage, love your enemies without prejudice, those things, maybe achievable, but it is denying ourselves.
It doesnt say in the bible you cant have sex or get married. It say you can have sex untill your married.
still how many of you follow it? I can hardly see kids who don't get laid before 15
I never said people followed it, i dont. Just saying what the bible says.
Yes i know Star Trek is fiction. I just was referring to the philosophy in it.
This post has been filtered for improved legibility #294539 Quote Report Edited by ~Miroku4444 3 years 5 months ago
Yep, I did not point fingers either, just that this actually is kinda funny and contradicting you see, with a majority of people who claim their faith for christianity, many failed collectively in trying to follow the said guide that Jesus passed down.
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