Ouch Omnidevil, Shellova! battle of giants >_< .... this is statting to be a painfull matter...
I think it can't and won't be proven if Jezus did exist or not. There are people who have reasonable arguments to say he did existed and there are people wo have reasonable arguments to say he did not.
This wil always be a reason for argument no matter what.

Even if Jezus himself walks, in not everyone will be convinced.

For me that's end of story, and since non of us is a historicus or a religion specialist we won't come to an answer here either.

Yes, but if you want to truely be wise you must have some imagination and a faith in something. If you dont all you have to keep you warm at night is your facts.


We as humans desire to know the facts and like to understand the world around us. Though we also need a little faith in our lives, or all well be is a heartless un-caring robot. We need a combonation of both to be a complete human being.

do I seem like that?
Perhaps then you should meet me in real life, perhaps after you see what I do, you might change your mind.
After all, I did have some faith before, since I was educated to believe, I grown tired of neverending questions that never get real answers that is why I changed. Of course, I believe deep down in there, if it wasn't for the fact that I did somewhat pray before, I would not have questioned his existence, or any other deities' existence before. Again, that is just faith, I believe in having faith with yourself, I guess one can always embrace other forms of faith. After all, as we know, we are only human.

I do not believe I lack imagination, otherwise, I would not have embraced in becoming an artist, or a waller, or even interested in anime for that matter, after all it is just fantasy, imagination is crucial to the development of nations, of its cities and great citadels, it is necessary to imagine what we can do, and then through logic, science and actual knowledge, define the limits of possiblity to make the imagination true or false or possible to complete.

Without imagination, one may collapse from lack of inspiration, that inspiration to learn to be smart, learn to be human, to learn morals and etc, are all based on imagination, in simple deduction wise, if you were a kid, and you learned that all around you lacks possibility to imagine, would you have inspired or be inspired to learn, knowing that everywhere around you, are concrete facts and factors that are the driving forces of rules and laws? You would not, that is why imagination is important, but I do not imagine or put my imagination to imaging a divine or superior being, rather, something else. Such as imagine myself, "I can do it" and usually, that alone is the more comforting thought.

If you define religion as something lucid, yet hard to understand, needed by everyone, and had grasped into the very fundamental of human life controlling and at some cases at some times gives hopes and miracles to the masses, then money and music is the best religion in the world. These past few years, I consider my belief not a part of the 'Christian' religion, but as a mere follower of God. Religion is what man told you to do. Whether it's inspired by God or not, is open for discussion.

quite true, religion was man-made in a sense, after all, only with followers and a guiding leader who is man (except for Jesus or Mohammed or whatever else since that is the issue being discussed), to begin.
Money may not be a religion, but well, who says you can't worship financial superiority? It is free world and free choices, I guess one can never find a true answer.

After all, the idea is not to prove if God exists since that is not provable, Strong Atheism (unlike me, which is nearer to soft Atheism and allows breathing space), is just like Extremist theory, the whole idea in denouncing God would seriously be a challenge in many areas. I certainly view it to be no more than another form of religion which imposes views there is NO GOD. Science and facts exists to prove if a hypothesis, a theory, or a certain formulae works or not, whether it be positive or negative, but in order to do that, one must first have testing data, in this case of religion, and many others of this examples, Science cannot explain since there is no data to form a hypothesis, beside qualitative data which is not applicable, as that will only form more theories, which cannot be proven.

Again, I think human compassion did need imagination, a simple "you can do it" would have been suffice in getting me through the days when things get tough, but I certainly do not need "God will help you do it" to encourage me. I hope people can see the way I think.

This has been a really interesting discussion. Thanks Omnidevil for bringing this topic up :). People should dare to ask. They should dare to open their mind, not to limit their wisdom in mere fantasies and imaginations and be more acceptance to facts. Only by that they can find the true faith. This kind of discussion should be a really good mind opener.

I think the more educated and more open minded one becomes the more they question things that are just believed with no proof. I think this is how our civilixation has advanced and shall continue to advance is because some educated people are asking for proof and are questioning the status quo. If everyone believed without question any religion that was handed down then we would not have made the adcances in other areas such as medicine and technology becuase we would have waited for God or the savior "whoever came along" to save us from disease and such. Questioning is how humans learn. Also having faith in something is human nature so that we arent "heartless un-caring robots", but you dont have to have faith in an organized religion to have faith is something. I think the person who started this thread, omni-devil isnt a heartless un-caring robot or he wouldnt be asking the questions and feeling so obviosly passionate about the topic.

Lol Omnidevil. I wasn't talking about you. I was refering to those"Strong Atheism" people you mentioned. I know your not a heartless un-caring robot.

Miroku4444

lol Omnidevil. I wasn't talking about you. I was refering to those"Strong Atheism" people you mentioned. I know your not a heartless un-caring robot.

I don't know about heartless, but he is a robot. Just look at him! >.<

gat

Miroku4444

lol Omnidevil. I wasn't talking about you. I was refering to those"Strong Atheism" people you mentioned. I know your not a heartless un-caring robot.

I don't know about heartless, but he is a robot. Just look at him! >.<

I have metalic tits if anyone wondered.
OH NOES!
Thread derailed. Hope a mod closes this before a spam fest from us begins. Many thanks to those who argued and came in with points of their own.

The vast majority of historians agree he existed, in fact, it's rare his existence is ever challenged. It's just what he did when he was alive. Jesus lives during the roman empire, and the amount of attention he attracted for his providence did allow his name to be recorded in several places. The problem I have with this is that the source of the question for this thread was posted on "ttp://atheists.org/" which does suggest bias.

Well, I don't doubt that he was alive even thought it is imposible to prove the opposite. I don't believe he could do any od those things that are written about him, he was probably only a normal guy who made something that made the people believe he was something greater. And I don't like it when people says he existed because it's written in the bible. and hello, the bible has changed everytime it was rewritten. It may be just a story like Gilgamesh or other tales.

I dont like Jesus or his teachings. And he wanst a messiah or something he was just a really nice man.