Sponsors

Highlighted

Trick or Treat by °chanelqueen17  1 month 2 weeks  ago

Trick or Treat by °chanelqueen17 1 month 2 weeks ago

^nat
After months of work, chanelqueen17 has created a gorgeous scene of Alice and Oz from Pandora Hearts, using scans that didn't even feature both characters together. Even after spending so much time on matching the details of the characters to their new looks, chanelqueen17 didn't stop there and went all out on the background too! This wallpaper definitely needs to be seen!

ShoutBox

~kittylove 5 seconds ago
Oh, well i hit send then my internet got disconected...

~cutiepie24 54 seconds ago
Ohno thats okay i havent even checked my box sinct this morning

~kittylove 1 minute ago
Bye Corvus

~cutiepie24 1 minute ago
"saw" im so bad at typing

~kittylove 1 minute ago
@~cutiepie24: hey sorry if i just sent you a blank PM...

~cutiepie24 2 minutes ago
I asw you in the shout box while rtying to post a comment

~Inferi-Corvus 3 minutes ago
Lol i gtg im getting yelled at once again. I wish you all a pleasant evening/day/ whatever time zone you're in. laters ^.^

$thewarangel 4 minutes ago
Hey Corvus read your user page commets from the bottom to the top when you read them

~kittylove 5 minutes ago
Hey cutiePie! @~Corvus: oh sounds kinky, jk. but yeah so do i!

~cutiepie24 5 minutes ago
And a hello to everyone else

Independence

user avatar
~Gvnkwyr
Member
Orgullosamente Latinoamericano
Topics: 24
Posts: 320
4 months 3 weeks ago
Independence

Nice word, it reflects freedom, sovereignty and a lot of good things... generally is view with good eyes, but is the same in modern society?

What would you think, as a citizen of your country, if some region or state suddenly claims independence and starts to fight for it?

NOTE: I don't have mentioned ANY country name and I wait the same for you, I know that several real-life examples exist, but this space is for well-reasoned and calmed debate, I don't want to start a political pandemonium!

#888629 Quote Report Edited by ~Gvnkwyr 4 months 3 weeks ago

user avatar
~flyleafus
Member

Topics: 3
Posts: 170
4 months 3 weeks ago
Ahh, an excellent topic, particularly for me as I am an American citizen and yesterday was independence day for the United States; woot 233 years old, can't wait till 250.

On a more serious note though...

I would say revolution (violent or not) is justified only when the government that is to be overthrown has failed to properly serve the people. Yes the point of the government is to serve the people, in today's modern times I feel that too many people forget that. Now what it means to "properly serve" brings up the whole matter of what is the proper function of government but that is a different discussion, some might say it is to provide jobs for all while others might say to maintain the law and nothing else but this is a matter upon itself outside this thread.

user avatar
~Gvnkwyr
Member
Orgullosamente Latinoamericano
Topics: 24
Posts: 320
4 months 3 weeks ago
It's a good reason, but...

Government's failure is not necessary a justification for revolution, a president that fails to serve people can be changed, laws can be reformed or some other changes can be made. Democracy is intended to please majority of but not all people, so even if a 25% of the population is not in agreement with the government the best thing they can do is wait for the next elections.

But what happens if independence claims are justified by religious, ideological, ethnic or cultural reasons?

#888740 Quote Report Edited by ~Gvnkwyr 4 months 3 weeks ago

user avatar
~Darkvein
Member
Committee - A group of people who keep minutes but
Topics: 4
Posts: 169
4 months 3 weeks ago
A part of Social Contract Theory is that people consent to be ruled. When they no longer consent, they will (attempt to) oust their ruler and (attempt to) install another one - or leave their governement's zone of influence and try to install their own government in an ungoverned zone or swear to another. Taken at face-value, and in a general sense, people who live under oppressive, fascist, or otherwise poorly-executed governments are okay with it. If they weren't, they would be rising up to overthrow the government or fleeing to another area.

By extension, if some group in my home was so unhappy with their government, even if I view the government as good and benevolent, that they rose up.. well, social contract theory says they're well within their rights to do so. So while I wouldn't really be happy about it, I'd be okay with it.

#888924 Quote Report Edited by ~Darkvein 4 months 3 weeks ago

user avatar
~Gvnkwyr
Member
Orgullosamente Latinoamericano
Topics: 24
Posts: 320
4 months 3 weeks ago
Yes, that's right too, but I insist in my question


Darkvein
(...) they will (attempt to) oust their ruler and (attempt to) install another one - or leave their governement's zone of influence and try to install their own government in an ungoverned zone or swear to another.


Fleeing and fighting for independence are totally opposite: there is an ungoverned zone in the world? not really. People who claims independence won't to go somewhere else, they will fight for the right to freely govern the land they own, free from the influence of a discordant ruler. I agree with you that independence, in modern society, shall be the last resource, leaving space for negotiation with current government or attempt to oust it. But if fleeing is not an option, what would you think as a citizen? as the governor? as part of the people who wants independence?