Before we start off I want to lay down some strict ground rules to avoid closing this thread like the last one.

First: STAY ON TOPIC! Don't stray into other things even if you see a good argument there. If you want to argue about it start a new thread about the subject. Don't argue about it here.

Second: Absolutely NO cussing OR insults to other members who are either believers or non-believers.

Third: Say what your belief about Christianity is, but by no means DOWN CHRISTIANITY! This thread is going to be for peaceful discussions on the religion.

Fourth: Please type messages understandably and don't hurry through your typing. The post will just be hard to read.

mikageryuji

Fifth: If you are to post information that are very sensitive or are subject to too much scrutiny, make sure that you quote your sources. This is to avoid potential personal attacks.

Sixth: Enjoy your time in this thread and follow the rules.

Now lets get to posting. :)

firelycan

CHRISTIANITY

Plan of salvation

essential list to become a christian and go to heaven

Hear the Gospel. "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Romans 10:14).

Believe. "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6).

Repent of past sins. "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:30).

Confess Jesus as Lord. 36"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." (Acts 8:36-37).

Be baptized for the remission of sins. "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."(Acts 2:38).

Live a Christian life. "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;" (1 Peter 2:9).



All of these things stated here are needed to go to heaven. You cannot live with one and not the other. Each is as important as the other. Labeling oneself a christian without according to what is stated here is blasphemy. Listen to Jesus' teachings and abide by them, if you want to spend eternity with him.

Thanks for reading this and please share it with others.

OK, I really hope this doesnt get closed because it seems kinda like ressurecting a previous thread whether thats against the rules or not...but I appreciate it, gives us all more time to preach ^___^ hehe

I think everyone knows my views on the topic of christianity, if you dont then I will state it right not. I am a christian, I attend a local Church of Christ, which is a church that directly follows the bible, nothing less nothing more. I try my best everyday to follow the path of righteousness, but everyone makes mistakes, so when I screw up and realize it and am actually sorry for it, I ask god for forgiveness in prayer, and there is nothing he wont forgive if you are truly sorry for it.

The plan of Salvation is the only way to become a christian, and I believe that strongly.
You have to abide by everything in it, every single "rule" .

Christianity is the best!!

HAHAH.. lol...i guess i'll check in here occasionally...

i'm a christian and i just want to say first that i fully support anyone who is curious about the religion. These are my thoughts on the topic: i think if you believe Christ died on the cross for your sins and if you allow Him to come and live in you and your life, then i think that is the way to salvation. Confessing your sins, confessing that you are a sinner and Loving God are givens. i don't think it is easy loving God. many times, i think of God as a master / father and so i just obey Him. That IS something you should do, but there needs to be an actual close loving relationship between you and God. It can't just be a distant, "oh, i'll pray to you when i need you" kind of thing. (If you love someone, you would not only obey him, but you would also seek him and try to know more about him, you would try to do everything in your power to please him, you would feel very guilty when you sin against him, etc.) Anyway, it is a little hard to explain... .

i am not a big history buff.. i know a little of the evidence in support of and against the Bible, BUT i am definitely working on that... that just might be my new yr's resolution!... =B it is mainly my faith, my life experiences, and the Bible that have shown me that God exists, that He loves me and has saved me.

--- if anyone needs references to anything they want to know more about, i'm sure most people in this thread will be happy to help.

It's one religion among many others, although one of the dominant ones. Personally, I believe that all religions are a thing of past and do not belong to modern society where their job can be done by, for example; psychologists and nurses. Of course, some of the teachings of buddhism might be useful since they are basically about trying to come along with people. But in general they cause more grief than anything when "My God and His Love" meets "Another God and His Love."

Whoah!! finally the thread is revived. i wanna add another rule to what's stated above :)

Sixth: If you are to post information that are very sensitive or are subject to too much scrutiny, make sure that you quote your sources. This is to avoid potential personal attacks.


back to the topic, i just remembered an instance where the gospel won't reach the person. one example would be some hidden tribes in africa. they don't have any contact with people so i presume they don't have any knowledge about the gospel. it used to bug me if they will be saved or not. personally, i believe they will be saved. this is because they have not heard about what's wrong and what's right. it's also a similar situation with babies who die or unborn children.

but for those who heard the gospel, we are not excused so we have to obey...

I am new so I dont know about any previous topic but here's my personal view.

I believe in God but I am not a Christian. I do not go to Church frequently nor was I baptised or any such things. So why not be a Chistian if I believe? The thing about me is not only do I believe in the Christian teachings, I also believe in the teachings of Buddhism. I would like to stay open in this aspect and I do not reject teachings of goodness.

As for my view on salvation, I believe that as long as I am true to myself and the teachings of goodness, dont do things against my conscious to harm people, God will will not turn a blind eye on me when my time comes. My doings in my lifetime will speak for itself and God will be the judge.

one example would be some hidden tribes in africa. they don't have any contact with people so i presume they don't have any knowledge about the gospel. it used to bug me if they will be saved or not. personally, i believe they will be saved. this is because they have not heard about what's wrong and what's right. it's also a similar situation with babies who die or unborn children.

but for those who heard the gospel, we are not excused so we have to obey...

in this case, i believe you should go to this link... http://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

it gives you references in the Bible where i believe it says that people who have never heard the gospel are, in fact, responsible and are accountable to God. I usually use this reference when talking about this:

Romans 1:19 - 20... "what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities�??his eternal power and divine nature�??have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

so basically, i believe it is saying that God can be known to man through nature -- the nature that we all see in this world -- God's creation -- trees, animals, etc. . and everyone can see nature... except people who are blind. now that actually brings up another interesting point. WHAT IF someone is blind (can't see nature or creation of any sort) AND mentally challenged (one who does not know right from wrong, who does not acknowledge a higher poweer, etc.)?? where would he go? it is obvious that the answer to this question is definitely not required for salvation, but nonetheless an interesting thought. i will continue researching.

there are other verses that i have known about, but i am still researching. please correct me if i say something wrong.

wenliu86

in this case, i believe you should go to this link... http://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

it gives you references in the Bible where i believe it says that people who have never heard the gospel are, in fact, responsible and are accountable to God. I usually use this reference when talking about this:

Romans 1:19 - 20... "what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities�??his eternal power and divine nature�??have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

there are other verses that i have known about, but i am still researching. please correct me if i say something wrong.

yes, this is one good material. i'm actually looking for this one myself. in other words, they can be saved. thanks for the follow-up...

I believe in God but I am not a Christian. I do not go to Church frequently nor was I baptised or any such things. So why not be a Chistian if I believe? The thing about me is not only do I believe in the Christian teachings, I also believe in the teachings of Buddhism. I would like to stay open in this aspect and I do not reject teachings of goodness.

As for my view on salvation, I believe that as long as I am true to myself and the teachings of goodness, dont do things against my conscious to harm people, God will will not turn a blind eye on me when my time comes. My doings in my lifetime will speak for itself and God will be the judge.

This statement caught my eye. Indeed you're not bad in any way at all, but God rarely lets anybody into heaven. The only way to get into heaven is if either God sees the blood of Christ on you which purifies you or your name is written in the Book of Life which is very rare that anyone would have their name written in it. I'm sorry to say it, but even Christians have a slim chance of getting into heaven. Jesus told us "For you are saved by the skin on your teeth." which would mean that even if you do many good deeds and stuff like that you'll never get in heaven. You can't get into heaven by works. But you can get in heaven if you have the blood of Jesus Christ on you.


Well......this is the Christian belief of how you get into heaven. I'm not trying to persaude you. People are entitled to their own beliefs so I respect that you have your own beliefs.


Another thing about Christianity I find interesting is that Hell isn't the end of the line. God throws Hell into the Lake of Fire with Satan and all his fallen angels. A Hell and one thats even worse? That's creepy if you think about it.

This is a topic i love to discuss :headbash: , it is very much like hitting your head against the wall for hours on end. personally i consider myself to be a agnostic simply cause i have not been able to rule out or prove to myself the existence of a god or gods, otherwise i would probably be closer to what modern terms call a atheist (even though modern terms have it wrong). if researched one will learn atheism was not created/started to deny the existence of a god or gods but to throw off the flaws of organized dogma.

i have done extensive research into this subject since religeon is so important to so many people, not only for my own needs but how i view, interact and socialize with others who are both religeous and non-religeous. although still to this very day, my research has done very little to cement a belief in a god or gods, rather the opposite, especially my research into christianity which at it's current understanding happens to be riddled with problems, contradictions and inconsistencies (specifically the bible and other holy scriptures)

christianity seems to be a amalgamation of mulitple pagan religeons and judaism, they have incorperated and assimilated practices, rituals and stories from other pagan religeons, changing them to fit their own dogma and/or agenda. after which they did whatever they could to cover up these facts, cover-ups like building on/over other religeous sites, taking over other religeons celebrations and festivals, and controlling and/or destroying other religeous/historical/threatening knowledge or information.

one of the animepapers members (wenliu86) who posted on this thread said something in his/her post that i both agree and disagree with and i quote "many times, i think of God as a master/father and so i just obey Him. That IS something you should do, but there needs to be an actual close loving relationship between you and God. It can't just be a distant, "oh, i'll pray to you when i need you" kind of thing. (If you love someone, you would not only obey him, but you would also seek him and try to know more about him, you would try to do everything in your power to please him, you would feel very guilty when you sin against him, etc.) Anyway, it is a little hard to explain" the part i disagree with is "many times, i think of God as a master/father and so i just obey Him", it is my contention that we were not given free will by god simply to follow and obey blindly, but so we can choose to have faith, to devote our love to god and choose to do good in our lives through the truth and understanding of good and evil. it is my opinion the first step to true faith is through understanding, to comprehend and to have the ability to conceive of what it is that you put so much love, devotion and faith into. it is also my contention that you cannot truthfully love what you do not understand which brings me to the part i agree with "but you would also seek him and try to know more about him" why i agree with this part should be self-explanatory.

now that i have stated that understanding and knowledge is so important to being truly spiritual and having true faith in god, i will tell you why. when a person reads the bible they believe they are reading the correct interpretation of older gospels or holy scriptures but this is far from the truth, in fact the meanings and concepts behind much of the original language that the gospels or scriptures were written in have become very ambiguous over time, this is actually very normal as languages continue to evolve. like for example! when we read about abraham and sarah, we believe we are reading about two people named abraham and sarah, but their names may not have actually been abraham and sarah (or abram and sarai) but may have been titles. not one person i have asked in my family or even at church actually knew that the meaning of the name sarah in hebrew meant "princess, noble" or that abraham meant "father/leader of many" or that the word forty was more conceptual essentially meaning "many", these are only the small instances of misunderstandings and misconceptions in the current translation of the bible, of course not all people are unaware of these and other problems with the current level of understanding but those who are aware have studied/researched. so how can we learn our lessons correctly from the bible if the translation of it is incorrect? not to mention that the current translation has been groomed, parts changed, parts left out, even entire books/gospels left out. without all the information how can we make an informed decision? a correct decision? and know we are making the correct decision? most people ive asked this say the answer is "faith", i say the answer is to use the brain god gave us and learn for ourselves, i say it is simply not enough to just do (live your life good and worship god) but you must understand why to live your life a particular way and not another and understand who you are worshipping, what god wants and why god wants it.

i do not deny the existence of god but i do not trust mankind due to what is called "the human condition" or the natural flaws and tendencies we are born with, so basically unless god comes to me personally and tells me, i will never know for sure and therefore will be a agnostic till the day i die

sorry if i am long winded, i have so much to say on this subject that i could write pages and with all those ideas and philosophies swimming around in my head i can easily get confused and distracted, so im hoping what i wrote was consistent and coherent. but ill post more of what ive learned and my ideas and philosophies further into the thread.

To zealkai:

i do agree with your post. but the word "faith" only applies to believers. humans indeed have a very powerful mind to even make decisions for its own. and it is this mind that will help us get to the truth as we go on. then we apply faith.

When I was little, the bible was like a fairy tale to me. When my mother would read me such stories like Noah's Ark and the Birth of Christ, I thought it was just one of those stories like Little Red Riding Hood. In fact I still believe that. There are so many versions of the bible that you probably can fill an entire room full..or more! First one person told a story with some sort of moral then another person took it, changed it or added to it. Just like the 3 Little Pigs and the 3 Little Wolves! Same moral just changed. Yes, I do admit I know only a little about the orthodox religions but I know enough to know what they are about. I mean, what's the point of living if you know in the end you are going to burn eternally in a weird place called Hell? And the only way in to "Heaven" is having someone guy's blood on you or your name is written in a book. Man that guy who nailed Jesus to the cross is pretty darn lucky.

Here's a true story.

This man never believed in Christ or any savior even though he married a Christian himself. One day his son is sent to the emergency room and the doctors tell him that his son will only live for a few more days till his body wears out. The man is so deep in sorrow that his wife tells him to pray. And he prayed...he prayed and he prayed for his son to God, to the angels, to any being that might help his son live. Another day later the doctors tell him that a miracle has happened and his son won't die.

Now here's my view. I believe that a person's will or energy can change anything if strong enough. Kinda like how my Christian friend put "If your faith is strong, God will help you." Or something like that. So what do you believe? Was it God's power that healed the son? Or the man's own power to heal his son's status?

Here's a story that happened to me.

My cousin was pregnant. Everything was doing fine until the doctors found that she had a rare infection that made the womb unable to be healthy for the baby. So at 3 months premature my cousin's son was born...unable to breath on his own at all. He was placed in critical care and put on 100% oxygen which slowly kills your brain cells. My cousin called my mother about his condition and later that evening while my mother was on the phone with her reiki master, they both preformed long distance reiki with my cousin. Using healing life energy from their bodies my mom's reiki master formed a womb like energy about my cousin's baby and my mom worked on healing the baby's lungs along with my cousin. I also sent him some of my life force fueled with love. The next day the doctor was completely stunned. 24 hours after the baby was born he could breath regular air on his own where any other baby would have to be on 100% oxygen for several days or a week. He's doing good but the 100% oxygen got to him even in 24 hours. It was good that he could breathe as soon as possible or he would of ended up in a serious case of mental deficiency.

All of us believe there is something out there whether it be a supreme being or a life force. I particularly believe that your life force in the universe is a small part of what I'd like to call Life. Life is what fuels you to be alive, to love, to die, and then reincarnate. There is no point in heaven or hell because your soul chooses what happens to you not someone else. I don't want to live my life knowing I'm not in control! Lol.

That's my two cents even if I only brushed the border of the subject.

To zealki and Lissi-chan: Umm please don't stray off topic. This topic is for one thing and that's your view on the Plan of Salvation and Christianity. This thread is for that alone not whole stories about "life force" or saying stuff like religion isn't needed or its a fairy tale.

I'll say one thing. Christianity is not a fairy tale. Places in Israel and the middle east still have remains of things that happened in the Bible. The earth for example is one huge example of the results of the flood. And religion is needed. Without it people would have an empty hole that they can't fill. No matter what you do religion surrounds you and thats a fact. Even atheism is a religion. You can't escape religion.




Now that that's over let's back to the topic and avoid getting off the subject again.

I mean, what's the point of living if you know in the end you are going to burn eternally in a weird place called Hell? And the only way in to "Heaven" is having someone guy's blood on you or your name is written in a book. Man that guy who nailed Jesus to the cross is pretty darn lucky.

You don't get it. We all go to Hell because of sin. Sin is what takes us into Hell and the only way out of it is to be saved by Christ. Jesus isn't some guy either. He's the Savior of every single person on this planet if they accept him as their Savior. The guys who nailed Jesus to the cross aren't lucky. If they didn't see Jesus as their Savior then they have gone to Hell. You don't literaly have to have his blood on you to be saved. It's a metaphor that Christians use to say that when you're saved by Jesus he puts his blood on you to purify you. You don't literally have to find his blood and put it on you to be saved. You have to truly mean it with all your strength, soul, heart, and everything that is you to tell Jesus that you sinned and that you accept him into your heart as your Savior. That is when you are saved and when you turn from the path you walk to a one of righteousness.

I hope i am understanding what you said correctly mikageryuji, but i think you were trying to say that those with faith are already believers and those who believe already understand what it is they have faith in, what they devote their love and their life to.

i respectfully disagree though, even though it is my belief that truth and understanding is the path and key to a true relationship with god, however i do not think either is a neccessity for belief, but both are a neccessity for faith. many people who have beliefs have little or almost no understanding of what it is they believe in, like children who believe in santa claus, even though they have many skeptical questions they still choose to believe with or without the answers.

there are people who do not go to church who believe in god, there are people who have not read the bible and yet believe in god, there are some who see god just as father/authorative figure and there are some who simply believe out of intimidation and fear.

belief almost seems to be nothing more then a feeling, a conviction of one's ideas even if those ideas have no grounding in truth or fact. under these circumstances i fail to see what relevancy belief has in a true relationship with god

most people think belief is a requirement for faith but this is also in my opinion is incorrect, funk and wagnalls new college standard dictionary defines faith as;

1. a firm belief in what another states, affirms or testifies, simply on the ground of his truth or veracity; especially (as distinguished from mere belief), practical dependence of a person, statement or thing as trustworthy; trust; as, faith in a friend (as sincere or true), faith in his advice (as wise and good), faith in his efforts (as likely to be efficacious) 2. specifically, in theology, the assent of the mind or understanding to the truth of what god has revealed; belief in the testimony of god as contained in the scriptures; a divinely wrought, loving, and hearty reliance upon god and his promise of salvation through christ; sometimes called justifying or saving faith; as, we are saved through faith; more widely, operative belief in the truths of religeon; as, a serene and blessed faith 3. intellectual conviction in general, on whatever based, including even an approach to absolute knowledge; as, faith in herodotus, faith in a mathematical demonstration or axiom 4. a doctrine or system of doctrines, or a proposition or set of propositions, that one holds to be true; specifically, a religeous creed or article of belief; as, the lutheran faith, a man's political faith. 5. an obligation to fidelity, whether expressed or implied; also the observance of this obligation; unwavering adherence to principle, especially as affecting one's relations with others; fidelity; loyalty; as, to keep (or break) faith with an ally.

from this definition, faith is in the context of religeon, the belief that the holy scriptures that were written by men are the words of god or divinely inspired (def 1.) but faith is in the context of god, the understanding to the truth of what was revealed to us (def 2.). understanding and belief in my opinion are two different things and to me belief is nothing more then a crutch in the context of religeon/spiritualism for what some cannot and possibly are incapable of understanding.

lol, you make me laugh jopuma, i cannot see where i strayed off topic, this whole time i have been talking about christianity, faith in god and my views of both, the only thing i have not talked about yet is the plan of salvation. the only thing i did which i can see that might provoke a response like this is that i did not exactly always say nice things about christianity, but regardless of whether you want to hear only good things about christianity you must concede to the fact that organized christian religeons are responsible for many attrocities in the past, for example the spanish inquisition or the persecution and burning at the stake of suspected witches, these are FACTS.

by the way, the great deluge/flood is a physical impossibility, first in order to cover the whole earth there would need to exist five times the current amount of the water that exists on earth, secondly with that amount of water on the earth, the amount of water in the air would be nine hundred parts of water to every one part of what we call air today creating what is called a vapor canopy, and literally this would cause air breathing creatures to drown just by breathing. thirdly with that amount of water on the earth, the atmospheric pressure would raise to 13,000 psi which its currently only about 2,000 psi, this would raise the average temperature of the earth to around 220 f and would make oxygen and nitrogen toxic to air breathing creatures, also under that kind of weight of atmospheric presssure any air breathing creatures lungs would be crushed.

there are many stories of great deluges/floods throughout history, many containing similarities, such as the dove released at the breaking of the rain, even though noah was most likely sumerian excluding him from the biblical great flood, the most likely flood that matches the biblical great flood is the flooding of the black sea. another impossibility of the story of noah, is the obtaining and loading of all the earths animals, which currently there exists about 30 million different species (most likely there were more back then) on the planet, which would require 50 pairs of animals to be loaded every second, not to mention the impossibility of the struggle it would be to capture every animal in the amount of time god gave noah to, including traveling to south pole to get peguins and the north pole to get polar bears. lastly again noah and his family after the flood would be the only humans left on the planet, which at our current understanding on genetics wouldnt allow the survival of the species. it is more likely if the biblical great flood did happen and that god warned noah and asked him to save animals before the flood, that this flood happened in a small region of land, possibly this small region of land was all that they knew of, so their whole world flooded. the farther back we go in history the less the average person is aware of other lands, like for thousands of years there were few that were aware of the existence of the americas, in fact most people thought the earth was flat and that if you traveled too far across the ocean that would simply fall off.

also the story of the flood does not fit or suit the role of evolution in the current state of the world
creationalists believe the world was created a mere six thousand years ago but the vatican itself denies this and has more trust in science which proves the earth to be about 4.5 billion years old which is declared here, originally i read this article on the associated press site but they moved it to their pay archive.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,69485,00.html

sucks when the leaders of your own religeon dont agree with you :halo:

one important detail to true understanding of the bible and its stories, is to not neccesarily take every story and every detail literally and as absolute, much of it is metaphorical and uses parables to teach us moral lessons, much like a tv show with a moral message.

the last thing i have to say about christianity is about who goes to heaven and who goes to hell, many people in life live in the immediate, the struggle to survive takes up most of their time and energy and they have very little time and energy left to sit and philosophize or reflect on religeon/spiritualism but those people even in the struggle can live their life good. by what im told i am supposed to believe that even those who do nothing but good in their life but dont believe in god or jesus will go to hell and those who do believe but sin (do bad) can go to heaven simply by asking for forgiveness, to me this is unjust and I WILL NOT WORSHIP AN UNJUST GOD! I HAD NO CHOICE IN WHETHER I WAS BORN OR NOT, I WAS FORCED INTO THIS EXISTENCE WITHOUT CHOICE, SO I WILL NOT BE PERSECUTED, JUDGED OR PUNISHED FOR THE FLAWS THAT WERE FORCED UPON ME AT MY BIRTH AND I WOULD RATHER SPENT MY ETERNITY IN HELL THEN SPEND MY TIME IN HEAVEN WITH AN UNJUST GOD AND A BUNCH OF SINNERS WHO ARE WANNABE GOODDOERS WITH NO SELF-CONTROL!

now since i know this thread to be biased and those who started are only looking for that which agrees with their views (closed minded/fanatic=ignorant/arrogant or pride which i believe is a mortal sin), this will be my final post on this thread :wave: but let me say this, if you have true faith in god, opinions and views of others should not threaten or even phase you, in fact those with true faith such things would only cement their belief by finding the truth in whats being said. thank you very much for sharing your opinions and beliefs with me