Can training animals be considered cruelty? (Omit actual abuse. We all know that poking an animal in a cage, beating, raping, or torturing a creature is cruel)

If you don't want to read my long example, skip to the bottom part in blue. .

I train horses. They are strong and smart. They have strong teeth to bite with, and four strong legs to kick very hard. And they will. If not taught, horses will revert back to their instincts and do whatever they please. They have to be taught to do simple things such as letting a human lead them, picking up their feet to be cleaned and trimmed, and standing still while being groomed. If we didn't do these things, horses can suffer from all sorts of diseases and illnesses. But in order to teach them to do such things as 'mind their manners' humans have to resort to using whips and corrective measures such as voice raising and occasional 'spanking' as you would a young child. Is this abuse?

When someone who doesn't know anything about horses comes out and sees me tap a horse gently with a riding crop, they gasp in horror. While riding, whips are used to make the back end of the horse move to the side. They can be (but are not usually) used as a discipline. People uneducated in horses think you are abusing the animal. Even if you explain to them that it is important to train the horse so it doesn't kill you, they just rebut: "Well maybe you should set it free and stop trying to ride it." The trouble is that even though horses will slip back into natural ways, they still are not equipped to fend for themselves out in the wild. Their domestication has changed their overall build and digestive systems. Horses in captivity need grain and nutrients, vitamins and regular medicines to keep them healthy. Their feet and teeth need to be kept trimmed or they will overgrow causing major health issues. So, essentially- in exchange for letting us ride them, the horses get all the grass, hay, water and feed they could ever need. They get free health care, a nice warm place to sleep in the winter, and a cool, fly-free place to stay in the summer. I think it is a nice trade. Hell, I pay $400 a month for my horse to live happily in her stall & pasture, and that doesn't include the training *I* need each month to teach her stuff, or her vet & shoeing bills, let alone all the equiptment we need.

Domestic cats and dogs if not taught that humans are friendly (as a whole) will become wild. They adapt and learn to take care of themselves to a point. Animals in the zoo cannot usually be set free to fend for themselves. Is it abuse to keep them locked up in cages their entire lives- or is it preservation? These animals have also been trained not to eat their keepers, after all. Disciplinary measures have been taken to teach the more dangerous creatures to respect the people who feed them. Is that abuse? If you think it is abuse, should we set all of the animals free and let natural selection take care of it?

YES!! i just got my dog trained... and in my training class there was a dog [obviously] who's owner was smaking the head of her dog...and i was on the verge of tears. it was soo painful looking. the dog was wimpering and oh my gawd...i couldnt even stand it anymore. i had to leave in the middle of the lesson and change training times.

i hate people who abuse animals. hitting them with their hands really hard, or whiping them.. :[ !!

but if it is to like...nicely and treat them and stuff WITHOUT any hitting..painful hitting..then im fine with that.

dirtyhipoo

YES!! i just got my dog trained... and in my training class there was a dog [obviously] who's owner was smaking the head of her dog...and i was on the verge of tears. it was soo painful looking. the dog was wimpering and oh my gawd...i couldnt even stand it anymore. i had to leave in the middle of the lesson and change training times.

i hate people who abuse animals!!

Hipoo, I love ya chick, but did you read my post? *frowns*

Edit: In reply to the following post, Thanks!

Haha..my bad, i cant even open my eyes any more..i was typing essays the whole day. i will...tomorrow. ill copy it on my computer.

No.
In the long run it's all for the good of both the animals and their trainers/ handlers. It's the same as teaching a child that they can't hit other people, or run out in the street. Even if you have to punish them to get the point across, it's still for their own good. I don't understand people who can't grasp this concept.

It's only creulty if someone uses excessive force/ violence/ whatever. "Excessive" meaning more than is needed to get the point across to the animal in question. It's not right to kick a dog when all you need to do is stare it in the eyes or raise your voice for example.

I don't think training animals is considered cruelty.

But in order to teach them to do such things as 'mind their manners' humans have to resort to using whips and corrective measures such as voice raising and occasional 'spanking' as you would a young child.

You said it yourself. Would you consider your parents to be abusing you when she panks you with the cane and told you not to do something anymore?

Is it abuse to keep them locked up in cages their entire lives- or is it preservation? These animals have also been trained not to eat their keepers, after all. Disciplinary measures have been taken to teach the more dangerous creatures to respect the people who feed them. Is that abuse? If you think it is abuse, should we set all of the animals free and let natural selection take care of it?

The reason why these animals are in zoos all caged up is because their natural environment does not exist anymore... anthropogenic effects have all but degraded or destroyed the wild populations. If you look at many larger fauna you will see how their geographic distribution have declined precipitously over recent history. Letting them loose to "let natural selection take care of it" is tantamount to letting them go extinct. They would be much better in zoos with breeding programs and under the care of zoologists.

No, it's depend with the trainer itself! Usually I see much people always do it cruelly.. But, my neighbour train his dog to guard her shop softly..

Ironlynx

In the long run it's all for the good of both the animals and their trainers/ handlers. It's the same as teaching a child that they can't hit other people, or run out in the street. Even if you have to punish them to get the point across, it's still for their own good. I don't understand people who can't grasp this concept.

But what about teaching things that aren't useful to the pet nor the owner. I mean teaching a dog to bark when you say "speak" isn't useful to the dog; it's just for the owners entertainment.

It is simply unnatural to train animals. And humans for that matter. Why do we potty train our kids?! Learning be damned; let mother nature have her way with us. damn these clothes! * runs around nekkid outside*.

*looks at his bathroom door*

But I like my potty training! And I like my warm clothes! It's friggin' cold in the NYC this time of year!
To turn flux's comment on its head, I think that it's very good to train animals, and even more important to train humans.
I saw a very interesting show on Animal Planet (clearly from the BBC) about the instances of training "abuse". I am not talking about abuse, just the training method some people us, like using a crop on a horse or electric collars on dogs.
The study focused not only on the pain responses of animals, and the relative amount of distress the various events caused, but also how the humans training the animals suffered from a lack of training themselves. Sometimes a trainer or animal handler will use rough methods or painful techniques on an animal because they have not had proper psychology training themselves. My mother raised dogs, and we were taught to never, ever, ever strike a dog with your hand. Ever. Unless it is trying to bite and kill you, do not strike it. Reason being, the causing of pain my your hand, while not "abusive" of itself, trains the dog that your hand deals pain. Therefore, when you reach out to ruffle the dog's ears or pet the dog, it shies away quickly, not knowing whether the hand is going to soothe or strike. She told us to roll a magazine and *POP* smack it in our hand while saying "No!" very loudly. The sound was just as effective as the smack in every case. The dog would react badly to the sound and realize that every time to chewed on a shoe, they'd hear that loud scary noise and we would get angry. Problem solved, no harm done.
This example is meant to detail the difference in a proper, well documented technique causing less pain to the animal but still enforcing training. The more experience a trainer has, obviously the less pain or discomfort they will be forced to mete out on the beast in question.
In the case of horses, having been around unruly horses in my youth I can say that they are terrifying, dangerous animals without proper training. They neither know you nor love you, and wish to do you harm. With training and routine care, they are noble, gentle, and beautiful animals that will serve you for life. A lot of the training for horses and other such beasts is purportedly very pleasing for them, like the trimming of their hooves and other grooming, since the routine is good for their mental state. They see the irons and the trimming tools and say to themselves "Okay. Time to stand still for a bit. All right." Horse trainers in Kentucky do all surgical procedures and other things that require horses to be docile in the shoeing facility to induce the horse to stand still. That sort of training is very, very good for animal and trainer alike.

Regards, Aaron

EDIT: As for zoos (got so caught up in the horse thing, being a Kentucky boy), it's not a matter of abuse in most modern zoos. I know the Bronx zoo is meticulous in its use of "natural habitat" even going so far as to import foreign wildgrasses so that the animal's diet will be exact. They are cleaned, cared for, fed, and very happy by all accounts. Turning them lose in the wild would be a death sentence in most cases, and be more severe than anything else we could do to them.

aaronvps

But I like my potty training! And I like my warm clothes! It's friggin' cold in the NYC this time of year!

Sure it's cold, but it's not natural. I mean everyone can just group together for heat. You know just having a bunch of naked dudes huddled together on a subway in NYC in winter is the way to go. What could be more natural than that? Unlearn what you have learned. It is the way to redemption!

It's wrong to raise kids and keep them for 18 years before releasing them. It causes alot of psychological effects.

Humans can be very very seek and disgusting. They will go to just about anywhere to take out there own hate on some other creature, let it be a person or an animal.

Now, training pets is ok, as long as you don't abuse them. Been in prisoned in a cage there whole lives kind of sucks, but they are safer in there then they would be in the wild. Us humans would likely to choose to live in the danger, instead of been in a cage, but thats just how we are. Yet, some of us commit crimes that cause us to go in jail.

Well, there is a difference between true training and abusive training, true training involves positive reinforcement. Giving the dog a treat when they get it right and such, smacking it on the head is abusive training. Even raising your voice to the pet is fine, as long as it is not often and your tone is not hateful.

Teaching animals to do as they're told and training them to behave in ways that are beneficial to them and to us is not in any way wrong. As it has been said before, it is no more wrong to train them than it is to teach a child to behave and interact with other people. Perhaps the biggest difference is that since animals have a much more limited capability of understanding human speech, sometimes light physical force must be used to convey the same message that simple instructions could convey with a child. Of course, there are other positive renvorcements that can be used as well, and should be used in conjunction. And of course it makes no sense setting a domestic animal free in the name of allowing it to live out it's life naurally any more than it makes sense leaving a human out in the wilderness and expecting them to easily survive. Domesticated animals, unlike wild animals depend on humans for shelter, food and interaction; they were bred to be that way. Depriving them of it would be more cruel than training them to better interact with the humans who care for them.