M8 get back on topic like i did, maybe you should answer my other quote...

chinaman91

If you cant deny this fact why is it that Kenpachi cannot have his zanpakutou in shikai form? The author states it? the other members state it?

This is my last post...!?

Obviously you didnt understand me like a dumb little ****** ********** ********* that you are. I'm NOT going to appease you wanting to fight. Got it? Just int he little time I've been here I'vce already figured that you liek to argue for the sake of arguing. Sorry, I'mnot.now go pick on someone else little *****.

Roognok

dumb

I dont know... maybe your the only one that is dumb!?

Oh and you have stopped fighting? Do i sense defeat because you know im correct? Dont worry, your silence will tell us if you have no arguments left... oh and you still havent answered the above questions...

chinaman91

If you cant deny this fact why is it that Kenpachi cannot have his zanpakutou in shikai form? The author states it? the other members state it?

Noone said I was going to shut up chinaman. I said i was done arguing. Call it what you will, it'll just prove my point that you're self centered making you an egotist. There is no defeat in this got it. I'm not going to appease and make you happy by aruing with you. Go read in the posting of Ichigos Dad. My last post before this one.

Oh wait, didnt you say that your last post was your last post, so aren't you contradicting yourself again?....lol

I think its getting abit heated in here, and we are drifting off topic ppl

Chinaman91

This is my last post...!?

Yeh sorry, it was a typo... is was supposed to be was. And if you took it literally than i felt the urge to cut you down.

Ace07

and we are drifting off topic ppl

Not at all, currently you and i both know Kenpachi has a shikai, so i thought i might ask the only member in this thread who:
1. doesnt believe Kenpachi has a shikai, and
2. why doesn't Kenpachi have a shikai...

So yeh, theoretically we are on topic, discussing "Kenpachi's released zanpakutou"... Its just that Roognok has no answer anymore coz i cut him down.

I’m sorry, I’ve read through this thread and still hold the position that Kenpachi’s zanpakuto is not in shikai form.

My understanding is that one can only attain shikai by knowing the name of one’s zanpakuto. Since Kenpachi has admitted to not know the name of his zanpakuto, by default he has not attained shikai. I think calling his zanpakuto as being in a constantly released state like Ichigo’s is wrong too. Ichigo obviously has attained shikai, but as many of you mentioned before, doesn’t bother attempting to seal it because of all the reiatsu that he has. Kenpachi and Ichigo are fundamentally different in this aspect as Ichigo knows the name of his zanpakuto and Kenpachi does not, so I feel it doesn’t make sense to really compare the two cases.

Like some of you have pointed out, Kenpachi has stated that, “my soul cutter has no name… This is the only form of my sword. I didn’t put any seal on it. This… is the true form of my soul cutter.” (Ch 109, P. 17) While some of you read it as defining evidence of Kenpachi’s shikai, I read it as Kenpachi stating that his zanpakuto is essentially just a sword. There’s no seal on it because it isn’t released and thus wouldn’t require a seal (granted he could even seal it given his monstrous reiatsu).

I don’t know if there is a name for zanpakutos that haven’t been released yet. Zangetsu mentions asauchi which is a “the class of nameless soul cutter that all low-class shinigami wield” (Ch. 110, P. 14). Whether or not asauchi is just the name of the category that a zanpakuto would fall under if that the shinigami can’t communicate with it (like Kenpachi) or another blade altogether that would be given to a shinigami is unclear. But if asauchi is just a category, I would say that Kenpachi’s zanpakuto would belong there.

All this really is a long-winded explanation of my stance that Kenpachi’s zanpakuto is not in shikai form. To me, and would dare say to Kenpachi, his zanpakuto just exists. His blade’s “true form” at this point is just a katana. When Kenpachi does attain shikai by knowing his zanpakuto’s name, then I would say that his zanpakuto is in its shikai form.

Kenpachi is very strong... and with bankai? but not idea

You just dont give up do you chinaman?...Go back into the closet you came out of and get off my case. I told you you stupid loser, i said my peace, now be done with it idge.

As for on topic, Thank you neleh, finaly someone sees it the way I do. Regardless of what the "writer" says about Kenpachis Zanpaku-to, he has NOT achieved Shikai. But at the same time, going by a diffrent explination of Shikai, it is in Shikai. I still stand that it's not simpoly by you having to know the name to achieve Shikai.

I guess I missed it, but Roognok could you fill me in on the different explanation of shikai that you mentioned?

At one point Ichigo said that even when he calls out his sword's name the form doesn't change and then he finds out because his spiritual pressure is so high, his for is constantly in released form. And shikai means first release. And remember Ichigo's first sword which was also very big. And all this before he knew it's name. So based on that you can consider that so is Kenpachi's sword in shikai. But because he does not know it's name, he doesn't get the power of the shikai.

And for the million time may I repeat that Kenpachi is never getting bankai. Because he doesn't want to! You are talking about the man who wears patches that suck power, bells that help the enemy, a sword that suffers so much that can't help him at all and even has the blade chipped. And all this and he can rarely find someone to fight him properly. A man that loves fight so much, in what possible circumstance would he suddenly go bankai and with a slash of blade kill a lot of opponents that he would normally enjoy fighting...?

I don't think that size is an indicator of whether or not one has attained shikai. Yes, Ichigo's zanpakuto was big before he attained shikai, but that was because he didn't know how to control his reiatsu and thus tame the sword down to a manageable size. Isshin talks about in Chapter 187, P. 17 when he defeats Grand Fisher. He says that "Shinigami Captains all consciously keep their soul cutters in a manageable size, otherwise... everyone would be holding soul cutters the size of sky scrapers. Much like what you (Grand Fisher) are doing. Remember this well, you can't judge your opponent's strength by the size of his soul cutter."

Just because Ichigo's zanpakuto is always is shikai doesn't mean that because Kenpachi's zanpakuto only has one form that it is also in shikai. Kenpachi doesn't know the name of his zanpakuto and so thus there is no form to which it could change to. Ichigo on the other hand could theoretically seal his zanpakuto and then release it when he needs to, but because of all his reiatsu he can't. Kenpachi has nothing to seal and thus the presence of his monstrous reiatsu is irrelevent in that argument. But I do believe that if/when Kenpachi attains shikai it will be always in shikai because of his reiatsu.

Also, the important factor in shikai for me is the fact that the wielder knows the name of their zanpakuto. The change in appearance is a result of knowing the name and not the other way around.

And yes I agree that Kenpachi will never attain bankai. Like summerssunset you said, it would take out all the fun that he finds in fighting if his opponents die too quickly. I actually believe that his holds true to him attaining shikai also, as knowing the name of one's zanpakuto would give him more power

May I quote the wikipedia:

In rare cases, a zanpakutō, once released, will remain in that state indefinitely. Such zanpakutō are described as a full-time released form type, such as those of Ichigo Kurosaki and Kenpachi Zaraki.[9]

And here is the whole link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanpakut%C5%8D#Shikai

Man I totally don't wanted to read this thread. Since i'm only at episode 40. And the fight of Ichigo and Zaracki was totally freaking awesome.

I don't wanted to read those spoilers , but ah well.

WTTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFf


Kenpachi finally named his Soul Slayer??
Colllerooni!!

neleh

Yes, Ichigo's zanpakuto was big before he attained shikai, but that was because he didn't know how to control his reiatsu and thus tame the sword down to a manageable size.

Well than tell us, can Ichigo seal his sword into its normal form... no. That because he has an overflow of reiatsu, like Kenpachi. Thus both retain their zanpakutous in shikai form. Where does your information come from. Once again i will quote myself and others in this forum (summerssunset):

chinaman91

Maybe you should read my other quotes such as:
1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenpachi_Zaraki

Even wikipedia states:
Despite not knowing its name, his zanpakutō is constantly released due to his immense spiritual pressure.[4]

4.^ Bleach Official Character Book SOULs; page 258.

2.
I'm pretty sure that if you bothered to read chapter 109 page 16-17 that is all the evidence right there. I urge everybody now to go to the those two pages on any manga hosting site such as onemanga, and watch as ali3n gets told off, and this discussion can be closed. Seriously, do you guys read, or look at pictures.

Or 3. the evidence self explained infront of u
Ichigo quotes:
"is that y your not releasing the seal on your zanpakutou?"

Kenpachi answers with:
"This is the only form of my sword, i didn't put any seal on it (cause he can't, an overflow of reiatsu similar to Ichigo who can't seal his; seal a zanpakutou means to place back into its original or first form). This is the true form of my zanpakutou".

If you can establish this information in to your empty head, than maybe you can continue a conversation with everybody else as to what, how and will he (Kenpachi) ever have a bankai, what it looks like and all the other hypothesis that each and every one of our minds has. Kenpachi certainly has shikai, which is why we're all talking about bankai.

and...

summerssunset

At one point Ichigo said that even when he calls out his sword's name the form doesn't change and then he finds out because his spiritual pressure is so high, his for is constantly in released form. And shikai means first release. And remember Ichigo's first sword which was also very big. And all this before he knew it's name. So based on that you can consider that so is Kenpachi's sword in shikai. But because he does not know it's name, he doesn't get the power of the shikai.

Neleh, the author states in a published book that Kenpachi has a shikai... I have the quotes in my re-quote... As for Roognok, your an idiot.