WARNING, THIS THREAD CONTAINS RACIAL TENSIONS ETC



Did you really think it has anything to do with him being a 'spiritual leader'?
Spiritual leaders don't do shit to make shit worse, they sit down, meditate, and stay away from any political scenes.
They are outside the circle of social circles, they should have been.
China is not to be blamed, they see riot, government stops riot.

Just like Taiwan, you want to become a country?
Well, too bad, you can't, you belong in china, accept it, it is fate.

Hong Kong is richer and better than you, they don't ask for freedom, they don't ask for power, why? Cause china is like the motherland, it is providing what you have, believe it, free yourself, see where you get to?

Also, Tibet is the same, go ahead, elect your own government, let see you starve your people out of religious pursuit and spiritual freedom from the land that a Japanese lad who obstructed the Olympic relay in Japan

"I think China is evil, it wants to control Taiwan and Japan, it wants to dominate all of our cultures, consume us..."

Well... sad isn't it, cause it ain't true, allegations with no proof, China is big.

SO IS THE USA, did you Japanese nippies (sorry for this) complain when America set foot into your economies?

America intervened in Japan's economy as a condition of Japan's surrender. I do not believe that the same can be said of Taiwan or Japan in regard to China, hence your analogy fails.

If you wish to debate the legitimacy of Tibet's claim to soverenty there is little need to resort to racial slur, defamation of Tibet's spiritial leader and general cursing. The topic is divisive and controversial enough without your added layer of hype.

Hype from omni?... no never.

it's nice to see kath step in here and tear apart someone's post.

no offense omni, but you need to think it through better before starting a thread, and posting something like that. it's better to understate something and allow others to prove your point.

about the topic. i don't think that a religion should try to intervene in governmental affairs ever, but sadly that is what has as long as religion has been in history books. they want the power the same way the governments want the power, and until recent history they held much of the power. they can't face the fact that they no longer do. i think the way all should look at is, is the country i'm subject to benefiting the populace, or is it harming it? it it's is benefiting, then it should be left as is. China, although communist, doesn't truly force the no religion policy on it's peoples the way communist russia did. so the people are free to worship in private. none should complain about that. and taiwan is being helped by the growing chinese economy, so they shouldn't seek independence just to be independent. it's should always be about what is best for the people, not what's best for their pride. but few can give up their pride.

Not everyone here is philosopher, have a similar degree in philosophy, but we are all here to discuss. This is a group for discussion about several subjects. Judging is not the main point of our group. If it was a group for judging people, the name would be “The Preconceived Judger’s Realm”.

Like Agon said, “Wikipedia is our friend”, so don’t ignore it. Let’s maintain our discretion and moral sense, because we are here to make some difference, not to act like the great majority.

Also, my opinion is based on what Kath said. An intervention nowadays by any other country in another will only happen if we have conditions like old Iraq. This is not what is happening. What is more, it is no use to think about nuclear wars, our leaders may do some stupid things but as whole they know they cannot foment this idea. The main problem there is that China was communist like Cuba, a country whose citizens wish they could live in America.

Quite long time ago, the Catholic Church did not accept other religions, and just exterminate those beliefs. But now they apologize for such blood bath, and respect those beliefs. Lhasa is a spiritual city, with spiritualized people. Sometimes they look like slaves, but Buddhists monks and recluse priests are the same. We are not here to judge, just to respect each other feelings, as long as they do not interfere on Human Rights.

Arthurgomes

Quite long time ago, the Catholic Church did not accept other religions, and just exterminate those beliefs. But now they apologize for such blood bath, and respect those beliefs. Lhasa is a spiritual city, with spiritualized people. Sometimes they look like slaves, but Buddhists monks and recluse priests are the same. We are not here to judge, just to respect each other feelings, as long as they do not interfere on Human Rights.

This statement is completely wrong.

Firstly, the Catholic church is be no means sorry for its elders' actions, far from it, they advocate it and would, if possible, still continue this BS.
This is the 21st century. Not the most fucked up century and yet far from being the most likable. It's unsightly the way I see, but people now finally understand, considering that this should have happened a few thousand years ago, that human life is not to be taken lightly, though sadly they do not agree on this being the same for animals. Point is, if it was still possible, and within their free time and authority exploitable disposable, they'd be doing the same shit.

Second, "We are not here to judge, just to respect each other feelings, as long as they do not interfere on Human Rights." -- you say? Ha, if this is true then I'm not worth being part of this group, let alone the administrator. If you're simply referring to what I wrote in the guidelines of TPR, then the way I see it, it's all BS, I just wrote that shit to get the admins of my back about the members bashing each of other and me not doing anything about it. Honestly, I like bashing others, yes, I love this feeling of bringing someone from his almighty act into a complete feeling of despair, and not rarely does this desire arises within me, neither does this ending occurs all that rarely.


I thought you'd people have figured it out by now , some of you have, - I. Hate. Authority. Particularly, the kind that doesn't deserve the throne. So when I say something nice, it's either because I truly mean it, (occurs about 1/5 times in total), because I want to avoid conflicts (happens about 3/5 so), or because I have to do it in order to gain something from someone (permission of one sort or another, etc.), or my all-time favorite, to be sarcastic (happens most of the time).

I agree with Agon. Judging others is a basic part of living. Without it, you are just a simple tool to others. Why can't be judge others? What is so wrong about it? We make an assumption about a person and then decide if they are our friends or foe. Don't talk about feelings, because when it comes down to it, its just a stupid temporary mood that we use to protect our own failures. And we all know that we are so passive, we might as well not have them. Having a heart is for those who don't have one. Wanting things that one lacks is a basic necessity of life.

Ha, Agon you sound like a revolutionary. Kill the King. Burn the temples. Fight the tyrants. Screw the rules.

Back onto topic. Its easy to follow the flow. If the tide changes, so do you. You the generic public. Go die.

gogothee

Its easy to follow the flow. If the tide changes, so do you. You the generic public. Go die.

and do you think of yourself as any less of a sheep because of this? humans do not thrive well in isolation. therefore, everyone is a "sheep" in one way or another. you just chose the "wanna-be anarchist" sheep. so, because of this, "go die." seems rather harsh don't you think?

and as far as the thread goes- i will have to go with dam on the no mixing of religion and government. i think you *can* have one without the other and that it makes for a happier relationship. for many- religion is passion. and passion (for all the goodness that it is) is un-predictable and sometimes has no common sense. so, very passionate religious people make for a very one-sided government.
and a government *should* be for the people (i know tha it isn't this way most of the time but indeaistic government it should be). a governments main role should always be what is best for those it serves(the citizens)- not the other way around.

Arthur, are you aware that it was intervention by a high ranking member of the catholic church that helped bring hilter to power? are you familiar with the fighting in northern ireland? did you know that the a bishop blessed the german nazi troops early in the war? did you know th pope never spoke against nazi germany until after the war was over? did you know that the catholic church encouraged it's young men to join the nazi armies? are you ware that in every country the catholic church supports a war effort?

the catholic church is as responsible for bloodshed now as it was during the inquisition, and it has actually intentionally caused harm to religious groups that it saw as a threat to it's own power, in recent history. the attitude hasn't changed at all, just the methods. a different kind of manipulation.

@agon & gogo: i believe arthur was referring to being prejudice, judging without knowledge of a person. no one has the right to do that. but making judgments based on knowledge of a persons behavior is a wise course to take, to protect ourselves from those who would cause us problems.

Can we please stick with the discussion on Lhasa etc, China really obstructing tibet's freedom?


Can we also see beyond my flaming, as it is meant to be the strike hard, then strike at vital points.

it is by no means an analogy. What I said in the first post was, do you believe it?
What do you follow? the Pro-china view? The pro-whatever that goes against the people's will?
What do you want to see?
Is the government really the axis of evil?
Is there such a thing as Lhasa pursuit in spiritual freedom? Declaring themselves intending to be free from China's communism or whatever's left of it?

To follow on what I said in my first post.
I for one, do not agree with whatever the Japanese kid said, I certainly can never agree with what the Westerners (no offense to any who is) having a biased view on the Lhasa issue.
I come from a not so conservative mindset and idea, I certainly think that Dalai Lama, who is awarded his title by the very country he sought to liberate from, and many other things among his political influence, which yet again, being a so called spiritual leader, he has no business being repeatedly thrusting his head into where it doesn't belong.

It is kinda strange isn't, how the Olympics come near, and shit starts to happen, one point of a finger, and the world is divided into two sides.

Either you stand with the ones in the Blue corner, or the Red corner, problem is, what made you stand there, have you got a reason to make your choice right?

Agon: -This statement is completely wrong.

Arthur: -Let’s say that this statement do not match with our point of view.

Agon: -Firstly, the Catholic Church is by no means sorry for its elders' actions, far from it; they advocate it and would, if possible, still continue this BS.

Arthur: -Right Agon, this religion is truly a blood bath slavery. Like I said before (in another topic), religion is not to be discussed, let’s respect each other’s choice of religion, even if it is a blood bath slavery. Also, the Pope said the Church is sorry about the blood bath. Is it a political movement? Yes. Is the Catholic Church trying to turn the entire world into Catholicism? Yes. So, what is the point? The point is that Lhasa won’t succeed if they do not step down for their pride. It’s not easy to recognize your errors and tell it publically even if this attitude is actually a lie.

Agon: -This is the 21st century. Not the most fucked up century and yet far from being the most likable. It's unsightly the way I see, but people now finally understand, considering that this should have happened a few thousand years ago, that human life is not to be taken lightly, though sadly they do not agree on this being the same for animals. Point is, if it was still possible, and within their free time and authority exploitable disposable, they'd be doing the same shit.

Arthur: -Sorry, I do not agree. We are still in the age of lack of capacity to understand the real purpose of humanity. The entire knowledge is too much to be in power of one man, one society, one religion, and maybe one world. Day after day we learn about our errors, and so the religion in question. The main problem is the people who unfortunately gain some power and destroy the main purpose.

Agon: -Second, "We are not here to judge, just to respect each other feelings, as long as they do not interfere on Human Rights." -- you say? Ha, if this is true then I'm not worth being part of this group, let alone the administrator. If you're simply referring to what I wrote in the guidelines of TPR, then the way I see it, it's all BS, I just wrote that shit to get the admins of my back about the members bashing each of other and me not doing anything about it. Honestly, I like bashing others, yes, I love this feeling of bringing someone from his almighty act into a complete feeling of despair, and not rarely does this desire arises within me, neither does this ending occurs all that rarely.

Arthur: -If we want someone to respect us, we have to give respect to this person firstly. When you make someone sad, it will certain come back to you. If you want to prove your point, you do not need to point a gun or destroy someone’s personality to do that, just say it in order to build a better world not to promote war. Let’s think that war is for fools, and the real battle is to disseminate knowledge for everybody, because we philosophers know that lack of knowledge is what makes this world bad. In simple words, if you desire to live, you also desire to know how to live; thus, the best way to live is also the wiser; and the wiser way is the way that promotes life, not destroy it.

Agon: -I thought you'd people have figured it out by now , some of you have, - I. Hate. Authority. Particularly, the kind that doesn't deserve the throne. So when I say something nice, it's either because I truly mean it, (occurs about 1/5 times in total), because I want to avoid conflicts (happens about 3/5 so), or because I have to do it in order to gain something from someone (permission of one sort or another, etc.), or my all-time favorite, to be sarcastic (happens most of the time).

-Arthur: -I really have to apologize with you all. I thought we were all philosophers, but we are just in the realm of the philosophers. Because I should think that sarcasm is respectful, that bashing others will truly build a better society; that deceive people to gain something is the best way to live and make difference.

Omni: -Can we please stick with the discussion on Lhasa etc, China really obstructing tibet's freedom?

Arthur: -I agree with you Omni, I will think better about the topic in order to post something wiser.

Damoser: -Arthur, are you aware that it was intervention by a high ranking member of the catholic church that helped bring hilter to power? are you familiar with the fighting in northern ireland? did you know that the a bishop blessed the german nazi troops early in the war? did you know th pope never spoke against nazi germany until after the war was over? did you know that the catholic church encouraged it's young men to join the nazi armies? are you ware that in every country the catholic church supports a war effort?

Arthur: -Yes, Damoser, unfortunately that all happened. Let’s think that it was fault of some people with the Church’s power, not the main purpose of the Catholicism. Also, religion is not to be discussed. We know it will not take us to any part, just to circle and circle…

Damoser: -the catholic church is as responsible for bloodshed now as it was during the inquisition, and it has actually intentionally caused harm to religious groups that it saw as a threat to it's own power, in recent history. the attitude hasn't changed at all, just the methods. a different kind of manipulation.

-Arthur: Yes, it is all about manipulation, I agree. But people need to be controlled.

Damoser: -@agon & gogo: i believe arthur was referring to being prejudice, judging without knowledge of a person. no one has the right to do that. but making judgments based on knowledge of a persons behavior is a wise course to take, to protect ourselves from those who would cause us problems.

Arthur: -I want to thank you Damoser, you understood what I said.

I would like to make clear that I did not make any prejudice on this issue, I actually read up much of the Lhasa issue, and certainly the history of the Dalai Lamma and his many misadventures in the political scene, I for one, disagrees with his standing and I certainly disagree with him in many areas.

It is not so I think the Chinese government wields absolute justice, they trying to hide the news from the broadcasting (CNN China and BBC etc) was indication that there was political hands of lies playing in the background, how wide however, remains much to be speculated.

There is also the biased view of pro-whoever's side you are on, whether this siding actually meant something more than anything else, yet again, is debatable, so have you choosen your seats, Ladies and Gentlemen?