http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7384112.stm

I may sound like a 3rd rate asshole saying this, but I love reading news like these. Very little is more entertaining than a man who imprisons his own daughter and does certain sinful and immoral things to her
I'm only sad 'cuz I can't see the video provided in the article. Linux issues.


Yes, yes . . . I can already see my future.

1. Make lots of baby girls.
2. Imprison them in a cellar.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

You are disgusting and twisted. Its actually quite strange because you say the act is sinful, but then you would do it anyway. Agon you do not have many moral's, do you?

Quite the opposite. I have too many of them. However, how I perceive them may greatly vary from how another does. For you see, I strictly follow logic, and many of the so-called immoral acts are in fact logically far from being immoral or wrong in any way.

P.S. The last part of my first post here is a reference to South Park.

So you think it's all a matter of opinion on how you precieve evil? Say I do not consider murder being unmoral, does that make it really unmoral? There is such a thing as absolute right and wrong, just because you consider something right that does not make it right. Now I think most of us would agree that murder is indeed an evil act, but this is no different really. The reason why we think murder is bad is not only because it is frowned upon in society, but it also does not feel right to us to take away another human life. But why is that? Because we know and are convinced that murder is wrong. But like I said this act is no different.

1. Its uncivilized.

2. Its disgusting.

Kartarae

There is such a thing as absolute right and wrong, just because you consider something right that does not make it right.

I disagree, there isn't such a thing as absolute right and wrong, in fact, there isn't such a thing as an absolute morally speaking. The unfair death of an innocent person seems wrong. But what about if it was killed by a tornado or a natural catastrophe, there's no intention behind it, there's no evil behind it, therefore it cannot be wrong. It might sound unfair, but it's just natural. Now put that tornado inside a person's head, someone who does something like that has clearly been traumatized by something at some point of his life. I think sometimes we classify this kind of people like sick monsters to feel that we're very different from them, to protect ourselves from the possibility of being like that. There are no black and whites, just greys.

If there is no absolute then there is no standard for right and wrong and if there is no standard for right and wrong then there is no God, but this is just what I should have expected coming from you iroveashe because you do not believe in God.

It may be true that there is no absolute. Just because most societies will condemn certain acts like murder or rape doesn't immediately mean said acts are against being human as a whole. There will always be outliers like psychos and fucktards who will go against the norm and give you that once in a while anomaly.

But if you take things from a scientific point of view and allocate a certain confidence interval on how society justifies right from wrong, then you'd likely come up with 95% (i'm pulling these numbers from my ass) which would statistically mean that the consensus of the whole is unified and can be called a practical absolute. There may be no God, but if most (statistically all) of humanity says something is wrong then maybe there are certain rules that bind us all.

cow

But if you take things from a scientific point of view and allocate a certain confidence interval on how society justifies right from wrong, then you'd likely come up with 95% (i'm pulling these numbers from my ass) which would statistically mean that the consensus of the whole is unified and can be called a practical absolute. There may be no God, but if most (statistically all) of humanity says something is wrong then maybe there are certain rules that bind us all.

it's called a conscience, and it's ingrained in all. those who go outside it are either chemically imbalanced in some way, or have ignored it enough to it being useless. fidelity is part of the conscience, but it is widely ignored and thus we see a lack of it in marriages. there is a definite right and wrong, it's just whether people choose to see it or not, that it is obeyed.

Hmm I saw this on the news the other day and was going to post it up.

Firstly, I was major impressed that he was able to pull something like this of. Yeah it's a bad thing he's done but I still thought it was impressive xD.

Secondly, man he was stupid to fall into that trap. Pulling the daughter out to save the other kid. He lost to his good side xD.

Dam

it's called a conscience, and it's ingrained in all. those who go outside it are either chemically imbalanced in some way, or have ignored it enough to it being useless. fidelity is part of the conscience, but it is widely ignored and thus we see a lack of it in marriages. there is a definite right and wrong, it's just whether people choose to see it or not, that it is obeyed.

Agreed.

Kartarae

If there is no absolute then there is no standard for right and wrong and if there is no standard for right and wrong then there is no God, but this is just what I should have expected coming from you iroveashe because you do not believe in God.

This is false, first, I don't believe in the existence nor the absence of a god, and second it doesn't really mean that there isn't a god. What I don't believe is in a god with human values.

A few examples to explain what I said, take this situation:

Read more... (click to view)

Mr. A tortures Mr. B for 8 hours.

Is torture wrong? Yes.

Read more... (click to view)

Mr. B was a terrorist who was the only man alive with the code to deactivate a bomb planted by him in a hospital, and Mr. A got the code by torturing him. (lame story, I know)

Is saving hundreds of innocent lives wrong? No.
Can we classify what Mr. A did as absolutely right or wrong? I can't.
If we go further we could say that Mr. B thought he was doing right, he thought it was what he had to do because his god wanted him to, and he thought that all the innocent people he was going to kill would be seen as sacrifices and all their souls would be in heaven etc.
Some civilizations consider the sacrifice of humans lives as something good and even the people who's going to be sacrificed think so too.
Suicide seems wrong to me, you're taking your life away when so many people weren't able to have that choice and died before having the chance to live, you make everyone around you feel sad and even guilty because you were not strong enough to face your problems. Now a samurai would highly disagree, they see suicide as a very honorable way of dyeing, because they value more honor than their own lives.
How about animals? Could you say that there are bad animals? No, because you can't apply human values to animals.

There is a general conscience, of course, but is not absolute, it's determined by multiple factors such as the times and the environment, there was a time when having slaves was considered something normal.

Agreed. Right and wrong is based from the perspective of the person. It is not universal nor common with in us. It is an illusion that we believe in to sleep quietly.
And the conscience is the superego. It is what society dictates as acceptable and wrong. But the thing is that since when was society correct? A bunch of mindless idiots we are that pact together, thats what makes a society. Conscience is what we know to be not acceptable to others. And people choose to see what they want all the time. It is how we live. We cannot see the entire world in every second of everyday nor be everywhere in a every moment. Thus, we live in our own world with our own perspectives. No man can see the entire world. For it is ever changing and ever moving forward in time.

And since you brought god into this. I will rant on.
If we know what right and wrong is, make a list. I dare you list them all out. And then pick 10 random people from the streets. Then show them to them and see if they really truly agree to them. Don't believe because you think you know what is correct, doesn't mean everyone else does. Right and wrong are the same. Fine, lets pretend we have consciences. Who is to say that they are all the same? Thus where is your right and wrong there? 2 laws of foreign nations, who is correct? Who can dictate?

There is no god, because the world is not the simple. It is not as we want it to be. Never will, never wanted to be. Because we have so many wants, we cannot have a perfect world with a god. Thus, even with a god, we would deny that gods existence, because he has not favored us. Because we are all individuals with individual needs, and nothing can satisfy them all.

Also, back on the subject, people are disgusting creatures at heart. You and I know that. We are not anywhere near perfect. We are not anywhere near kind and we are definitely not civilized. To be civilized requires that you become one of the many. But being a creative and competitive creature, you don't want to be. So, what do I say on this? Screw being civilized. Do what you must to live on. Live life you own damn way, anyone else to tell you otherwise is a fool. Because we all know that we don't listen, even with overwhelming proof. We don't listen. We are all fools, and I am the greatest one of them.

iroveashe

There is a general conscience, of course, but is not absolute, it's determined by multiple factors such as the times and the environment, there was a time when having slaves was considered something normal.

Then why are those who have committed crimes in the past being subject to judgment even though what they did, and at the time they did it, was perfectly acceptable behavior and shared by a whole lot of others?
ex. Tootsie massacre by Hutu in Rwanda, Pol Pot generals on killing fields in Cambodia
Time catches on and along with it the moral standards that are intrinsic to being human.

Take the children of that freakshow Austrian. They were shielded from the outside world and were subject to what we would call a horrible and deplorable life. But they knew that they were being maltreated despite not ever being treated well in the first place. They didn't have the experience of goodness but they knew that what their father was doing to them was bad.

Slavery was acceptable in many past societies. Acceptable only to those who stand to gain from it. But the slaves themselves didn't want it because it was imposed unto them. Roman, Chinese, Mayan and Inca tradition made slaves out of their captives. The captives would accept slavery over death of course so they go with the system. Africans were abducted and brought into America for forced labor. What else are they to do but work since their homes are nearly impossible to get back to.

I notice how this thread started with LULZ HE IMPRISON HIS DAUGHTER and MAKE BABIES WITH HER IN A DUNGEON LULZ and quickly degraded into social faggotry.

let me be clear, many people agreed with the no absolute right or wrong quote, because it is true, there is no cuh thing. there are grey areas where you bear judgement to either side, depending on what your presonal perspective is.



And by the way, just to spite those who don't agree.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Josef_Fritzl

Wait, he's Austrian, not Australian. Though if it were meant as a joke, I do find it quite funny. Not that I have anything against Ausies except them being a nation of hoodlums and derelicts by blood.

Lol... i read this in the newspaper last week.

apart from his insanity, you gotta admit that the girl was pretty stupid. i mean... what idiot would believe that the house would blow up if you try to move a cupboard? and even if there was a possibility, wouldnt you risk it anyway instead of staying locked up and getting sexually abused? oh, and dont forget the wife. complete idiot. how can someone not know that there is an entire family living right under their nose? how can you not hear the wails and crying of baby children being born? wouldnt you ever suspect where those adopted children came from? how can someone be that naive?

renegadecow

Not that I have anything against Ausies except them being a nation of hoodlums and derelicts by blood.

hey. lay off the aussies. these things happen anywhere.
and as for "hoolums and derelicts"... where the hell do you come from?