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2 years, 6 months ago

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

I agree with you...Yama-gi knew Juha would return sooner or later. He was the reason why he trained his bankai to this level...and to answer your questions..:

1: both, but neither of them directly. I think in Yama-gi's case he might have known of the existence of a human baby whose father was a shinigami (from Urahara despite Isshin's possible exile from Soul Society) without having realized until the final battle with Aizen that it was Ichigo. in the same way Juha might have kept watch over Ryuuken and Ishida and know about Ichigo because of Ryuuken's odd friendship with Isshin.

2: None. Yama-gi is a ruthless warrior and he has proved it time and again. he was willing to sacrifice all of his followers to kill Aizen...and he is now willing to destroy all of Soul Society to kill Juha... I honestly don't know why Juha is keeping Ichigo out of his way but I doubt his reasons are protection..

3: Yama-gi is the only one who can know.

4: both because of the reasons I stated for the first answer.

7 months, 3 weeks ago

Well, thank you, ladies and gentlemen for your contribution. And the answer to those questions we might not find out even within a year, because I think that ****that's going on between Juha Bach and Yama-Gi is going to take a long time because neither of them is willing to just give in, and because Tite Kubo is NOT SO NICE to reveal anything special unlike Kishimoto, author of Naruto. We gotta sweat this for a long time, because I think after Yama-Gi's fight and maybe after that mysterious person that scared the hell out of Urahara have been revealed, there's gonna be another kind of pendilum arc or something

@Muraki3777: I remember that in the past that you have collected some useful information before this epic arc has even begun, can you tell it to us again??

7 months, 3 weeks ago

The pendulum arc was promised...but only Kubo knows when it's going to come out...and like you said...he really likes to keep his secrets...

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

if the first pendulum arc was about Aizen and Urahara, i'm betting that the next one would be for Isshin and Kurosaki's past since if there was any blindspot right now, i'd say it's all on Isshin's past.

well, well.. that's true. it is one thing to keep the plot hidden but that would be awful if you keep prolonging thing which makes the reader cold from anticipation. like who the person standing in front of Urahara. at the end of the day, i wouldn't care anymore since Yama-gi had stolen the spotlight.

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

I think Isshin's past is going to be a KEY to find out any key relationships with almost everybody important involved,… with Yama-Gi, Aizen, even with Ginjou Kuugo, and with Urahara more into detail now. It's gonna be THE KEY in order to find out how his relationship with Masaki began, and whether she was either, a former Espada, a former Shinigami or a former Vandenreich warrior and maybe the daughter of Juha Bach…

I think that Isshin had some serious ****going on with Juha Bach, too… don't you think so, too, my friends?

7 months, 3 weeks ago

Yes...Issin has to be the key. I think Kubo said somewhere that he knew right when he drew Isshin for the first time that he would be a powerful shinigami even before he knew what he was going to do to Ichigo...

Without knowing the timeline and where were these quincies hidden all this time it's hard to be sure of anything...it's easy however to imagine Isshin being dragged into some sort of quincy power struggle because of his odd friendship with Ryuuken...it might have been enough to cause Isshin's exile from Soul Society since Yama-gi hates Juha with all his being and flames...

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

he is the focal point of this mystery.. assuming Isshin had something to do with the war before and that will coincide with Juha's background as well as with Yama-gi. i was thinking that Isshin might be the one who stopped the war and saved Ryuuken from extinction and that was why he was exile.

that one will suit your theory @Muraki3777, and it'll explain the relationship of the others as well. it might also imply that Ichigo's mom is a quincy, well i doubt it in a sense since she'd be atleast capable of handling hollows like grandfisher.

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

@elleztim: Well that was a simple enough explanation from your views. An excellent point in indicating that Isshin was the one who could've stopped that war and saved Ryuuken's AND maybe Juha Bach's life. And as we know Yama-Gi obviously didn't like it and has therefore banned Isshin from Soul Society.

Anyhow we don't know yet whether Masaki was either a former Espada or a former Vandenreich warrior. I think if she was involved in any of the disputes between Isshin, Yama-Gi, Juha Bach and Ryuuken, I think she somehow lost her powers completely as well, only to be killed by Grand Fisher.

The only one we have to throw into the mix would be Ichigo Kurosaki, and whether he was already involved as a baby in that vicious cycle… and again, I have no doubt in my mind that if Ichigo WAS really born during that epic battle between Yama-Gi and Juha Bach, with his ruthless, resolute sense of honor that he displays right now, Yama-Gi would have wanted to kill Ichigo, if he ever saw him as a threat.

And now I'm getting that idea that Masaki could've really been related to the Vandenreich clan, and she may have really been the sister of Juha Bach, because, forbidden love between Shinigami and Vandenreich clan.... do you get my idea folks???

~ProfessorOrigami

7 months, 3 weeks ago

Does anyone know why the Quincies are all pretty much German?

7 months, 3 weeks ago

@ProfessorOrigami: more or less, it's all about Kubo's preferences and he must have taken a liking to Germany and its literature, hence he used them for naming everything about Quincy. besides, i've already been oriented by the greatness of german-based character like Midou Ban of getbackers even if he is just half blood.

@Maxi-Ryu99: well, that's where the loose part is hanging and i simply tie it with Isshin's existence and yes, i really have a feeling that Muraki isn't a normal human. it bothers me also how Isshin got exiled from Gotei 13. it must have meant he has broken one of their sacred laws. it's different with Urahara since he was still being commissioned by Yama-gi for assistance in defending Soul Society. but with Isshin, it's a full blackout although it's a little doubtful since Yama-gi isn't such a fool to not notice about Ichigo's father..

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7 months, 3 weeks ago

The Heat is on,… on the streets of Soul Society as the battle between Yama-Gi and Juha Bach continues with an array of Yama-Gi's Zanka no tachi attacks, to revive the dead corpses of the past to provide protection around the proud Captain Commander. While Juha Bach struggles to get close to Yama-Gi, Yama-Gi explained it plain and simple to the struggling Juha Bach: "The Vandenreich warriors cannot seal any Bankais whose powers are UNREAL!!!!!!"… And Yama-Gi and Ichigo ARE UNREAL…

@elleztim: Was that simple enough??? Is this really the end of Juha Bach???

7 months, 3 weeks ago

and it seems that is not the real Juha Bach.. that person whom Yama-gi defeated seems to call for the real Juha Bach with the honorifics -SAMA.. this means Yama-gi just wasted his effort against a clone.

on the other hand, it's not just Unreal bankai, but more likely if their potential have not yet been realized and the Vandenreich doesn't know yet the limit. put it this way, you wanted to contain some amount of water, so you need a container for that. but, could you contain the entire ocean with just a small glass? unless the Vandenreich have data on how vast their bankai's are, then they cannot seal it. that means, for the likes of Byakuya who repeatedly used his bankai up to its limit, the Vandenreich were able to measure how big the container should be as required to seal Byakuya's bankai.

looking at Ichigo.. not even Yama-gi knows its limit and it seems the Commander has high-regards on Ichigo and his ominous bankai..

7 months, 3 weeks ago

Yyyyyyessss, I got a little carried away here, when I mentioned "was this the end..." how could this be the end just now, when the wicked Vandenreich clan is still full of surprises.

Did Yama-Gi actually know that that Juha Bach may have been a fake clone, like you mentioned?

7 months, 3 weeks ago

this is most interesting indeed. but if ever that was a clone, then i'd say Juha Bach is one big cowardice of a Quincy. but it makes sense though. as explained by Yama-gi-- they cannot seal something which they don't have any knowledge of how extensive the bankai is. after this battle with fake Juha, the one watching the fight can now seal Commander Yama-gi's bankai.. that makes it according to Vandenreich's plan.

this also meant that they won't be able to seal Ichigo's bankai since none know exactly what kind of power he has and upto what extent. as Aizen explained, it is clearly on another dimension..

7 months, 2 weeks ago

For them to know so much about the bankais of all the captains except Yama-gi and Ichigo they must have been spying on them for many centuries...they have to have a spy very well hidden... . Despite the obvious hate between these two men I think there is a deep knowledge of the other and of what makes them move...Yama-gi's move to use the dead quincy was the perfect revenge for his deceased vice-captain and one he knew would hurt Juha...

@Elleztim: You said this: "well, that's where the loose part is hanging and i simply tie it with Isshin's existence and yes, i really have a feeling that Muraki isn't a normal human." lol I can honestly say to you that the character Muraki isn't normal in any way lol...but I am. :-D But I do agree with you that Masaki wasn't normal too...she saw grandfisher when Ichigo ran to him thinking he was a boy so she had some sort of power!

7 months, 2 weeks ago

@Muraki3777: woaaaaahh!.. that's it.. you hit the pandora box once again.. i just realized it after you mentioned. that was really important to prove that Muraki isn't just a normal human being.. she DID saw the grandfisher right? and as we know in Bleach, normal humans cannot see hollows and Grandfisher ain't a low level hollow..

wow, now we've passed another benchmark, all thanks to you @Muraki3777. so now, to discuss with the next topic, Muraki's origins..

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

@Muraki3777: you are really something special, and if Ichigo knew you were alive while you keep on observing him from reality life, he would just come for you and hug you from the bottom of your heart, haha...

@elleztim: That was indeed the blooper of the week, and it lightened our spirits very high.

I think that Masaki must have been either Vandenreich warrior or Espada, whereas my tendency would tell me it was rather the first, which would simply make MORE SENSE, because otherwise I think there wouldn't have been a point for Juha Bach and Yama-Gi to fight each other, when their respective subordinates just fall in love with each other and raise a baby named Ichigo Kurosaki, who in years to come would revolutionize the worlds if Soul Society AND Hueco Mundo.

As a closing remark of my post I would STILL say that in Ichigo's case, the Vandenreich warriors weren't able to seal his Bankai because it was UNREAL, NOT ONLY in spiritual manner, but also in physical manner, because, as we may remind ourselves again, Ichigo has learned the Fullbring for a reason, which means that this last power component strings and holds the spiritual Reiatsu together in ONE BODY AND ONE SOUL, or otherwise, it wouldn't be called FULLBRING, ain't it???

Think about, the Vandenreich warriors can't analyze and measure something that they don't know. And what they don't know are the mysterious components of Ichigo's FULLBRING, NOT his pure Shinigami Reiatsu.

No Shinigami ever bothered or cared about learning Fullbrings, because Shinigami aren't Human like Ichigo. And I think to be a supernatural HUMAN with so many physical and spiritual components mastered DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND A BOLD STATEMENT TOWARDS THE RAVAGES OF THE VANDENREICH ....

That sums it up, and now I'm gonna eat my sushi!!!!

7 months, 2 weeks ago

Quincies have a natural ability to measure and sense and control reiatsu...they even have their own form of kidou as Juha showed us with his protection spell...if Ichigo was the son of a Quincy he would have that natural ability and he doesn't...he's terrrible when it comes to controling his reiatsu and we never saw any hint of kidou in him... but... Masaki could very likely be a former shinigami...since we don't know if it's possible for captains and vice-captains to marry each other, there is the possibility that Masaki and Isshin ran from Soul Society because of their forbidden love...and it would explain even better why Aizen knew of Ichigo since so early on.

there is also the possibility that Masaki is simply a human woman with enhanced powers of perception because of Karakura town much like so many of Ichigo's friends...

I agree with you about the fullbringer powers...and I think it's not just the size of the reiatsu that saved him from having his bankai stolen, but because any evolution his bankai may suffer will most certainly have some sort of fullbringer twist...

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

hey, from the start, Ichigo wasn't learning and kidou spells right but he is inline with shinigami with slight differences. then he outburst his hollow powers making him deviate more in more from a common shinigami. that in mind, it seems like the Vandenreich would have a lot of difficulty trying to pitch the real limit of Ichigo's power, let alone his bankai. even after using the final getsuga, Juha seems to have no idea how vast that power is.

no even with the addition of his fullbring, this isn't scaled to Vandenreich's standard yet hence Ichigo really is a monster of his own.

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$shinangels

7 months, 2 weeks ago

Masaki is probably human. I believe the reason that Ichigo has hollow powers is b/c he is part human. Hollows are born from dead humans (as far as we know that is). When Ichigo got his shinigami powers in a sense he was reborn so being human he had the potential to become a hollow but his shinigami powers intervened and became a halfbreed. I can't say anything about Juha Bach b/c we have no past knowledge about quincies besides Ishida but that info is not enough to predict anything.

7 months, 2 weeks ago

@shinangels: i'd like to think that Masaki is really just a normal human but like how @Muraki3777 pointed it out, when she and Ichigo was attacked by the Grandfisher, she shielded and saved Ichigo. it's only possible if Masaki saw the Grandfisher back then and basically human being having sight on hollow isn't categorized as normal. hence, we believe otherwise that Masaki maybe part of some other group which could have inflicted that "unreal" power of Ichigo..

@mauriciogalarza: well, if Kubo decides to go that far, i don't mind. see how Code Geass turns out at the end when Lelouch died, it left an impression..

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~mauriciogalarza

7 months, 2 weeks ago

A nice ending for BLEACH will be if Ichigo is totally destroyed ;)

7 months, 2 weeks ago

@shinangels: And I was already wondering where you been. As long as the outcome isn't set, yet we are free to think whatever we think, until the official chapters have been revealed

@elleztim: Well I think that sums it all up. And at that point I would like to say that everybody can lose his or her powers under any unknown circumstances like our hero Ichigo Kurosaki, when he used the Final Getsuga Tenshou. And that means that it could have well been possible that Masaki was very well either Vandenreich or Espada blood, Whereas I think it was the first one out of the two. If Shinigami can be conaminated by Hollows, why not Vandenreich warriors as well, if they let their guard down, if you know what I mean.

Hopefully Isshin's past will reveal a lot more, like his relationship with Yama-Gi, Urahara, Juha Bach, Ryuuken, Ginjou Kuugo and finally "Muraki!!!!"

7 months, 2 weeks ago

I agree...now it's only a matter of waiting for Kubo to reveal that past...let's hope he won't make us wait too long...

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$shinangels

7 months, 2 weeks ago

@Maxi-Ryu99: True, until the manga has any concrete info we are all free to speculate. I'm just trying to come up with conclusions based on the manga's past info. So = We know that Chad, Inoue are regular humans but with special abilities. They both have/had human parents. Their spiritual awareness is just higher than regular humans. The manga clearly states that normal humans with higher spiritual awareness can see ghosts & hollows. That's why i believe Masaki is human. Let's try to give some proof behind our assumptions, that will make conversing more interesting. What is your rebuttal Maxi-Ryu99!? ^__^

7 months, 2 weeks ago

At the moment I have nothing to rebuttal, But what I want to say instead is, that I was very awesome today at my toastmasters public speaking event as Toast master of the day, Remember that!!!!

This week I'm not going to make a start to talk about the latest chapter of Bleach. Instead I leave it to the two of you to make the start. Like I mentioned in the Naruro thread, I'm too exhausted and tired from my successful speech today.

Please be so kind and let the discussion continue first, as you witness the latest edition for yourselves…

7 months, 2 weeks ago

the honor is mine @Maxi-Ryu99: since, i like the part the Aizen's name and existence has become a central part of this war as well. so i'll throw it out then, it's really a FAKE juha bach (and for starters, i was shocked that the first page of the manga introduces weird characters) but so it happens that Royd's/Loyd's power enables them to copy techniques and everything except appearances and yet, he looked exactly like Juha.. weird huh..

on with the show, so Aizen was like Ichigo as well, as special war potential.. makes me think that the Vandenreich really feared the shinigami's to have high regards on Ichigo and Aizen..

i bet Urahara was one of those special potential person. anyways, that's all i got for now and lastly, congratz on your function today @Maxi-Ryu99. seems like you nailed it perfectly..

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

Congratulations @Maxi-Ryu99!!! :D

so Yama-gi was wrong when he thought he was safe from the Vandenreich's ability. it's not the level of evolution of the bankai that makes it more or less difficult but the level of power...so basically the Vandenreich must be at the same level or above the level of the shinigami they are fighting for them to be able to steal it...

It makes sense that Juha sees Aizen as a special war potential...I am surprised though that Aizen didn't agree just to get out and betray Juha...

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

i guess Aizen got those "Villain's Pride" and selfish ambitions.. lol.. or just maybe, he hates the Vandenreich as well and referring to him, he doesn't want to be considered as the same level as the others, most especially if you're comparing him against a quincy..

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

Actually you hit it right on the money with your assumption that the Juha Bach that Yama-Gi was fighting was just a clone, and the proud Captain Commander WAS FOOLISH ENOUGH to fall for it.

On the other hand you must say it was actually an act of cowardice of Juha Bach by backstabbing Yama-Gi instead of fighting him one on one.

And this actually strikes Aizen out from our list of the candidates of "Who scared the hell out of Urahara!!!"

7 months, 2 weeks ago

i guess Juha's one big coward afterall. even though he boast that he is the only one capable of containing Yama-gi's bankai, still a chicken always has it's claw.. anyways, that's it for the great commander..

and i have forgotten totally about the person standing in front of Urahara thanks to Kubo dragging the focus all over soul society..

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7 months, 2 weeks ago

That's why the Vandenreich clan didn't want Ichigo to join the battle with Soul Society.

Another candidate who could stand in front of Urahara, I can think of is the Hybrid Hollow form in real flesh and blood now, after the Final Getsuga Tenshou has been released, almost like Ichigo's twin brother,…