Shigemitsubaki puts us all to shame once again by not only making an amazing wall with a great color scheme but also records the whole thing on youtube to let you see how it was done!
So now Ichigo doesn't have anyone left, Maybe it's time for Urahara and his daddy Isshin to come to the rescue.
Do you remember what Kuugo told Ichigo, "What do you really know about your father and Urahara??" Well actually Kuugo said that while he was in his "good guy" mode, obviously in order to get Ichigo's curiosity going, maybe as a kind of diversion. So it's obvious that he lied to him a little about his father's past...
I mean now that Kuugo has been backstabbed into his former self, the real evil badass, I think that Kuugo must have had some serious ****going on in the past with Isshin and Urahara, maybe having something to do with Ichigo's mom. Maybe he was in love with her and Isshin took her away from him and he wanted revenge...
or in an alternative scenario, Kuugo might have also been connected to Aizen somehow and they plan to free him from Soul Society.
Anyhow it's just speculations over speculations...
Fact is,... Kuugo practically killed 2 birds with one heck of a stone, and left Ichigo heavily injured and without any fellows.... along with his ally Tsukushima.
okay, i got your point with Kuugo and there's too many possibilities right now given that we have too much variables as well especially the ones related to Urahara and Isshin.
the crucial part: now we know or we do have an idea of Kuugo's true color, the dangerous part still remains.. whose side is Tsukushima.. this factor isn't cleared yet..
So are you telling me, Tsukushima has a motive as well which are different from Kuugo's?
Well, obviously, Tsukushima is evil,... wanna bet? I mean, if he weren't why would he have back stabbed Ichigo's friends just like that. It wouldn't make any sense why Tsukushima would suddenly help Ichigo. The only ones who can help him now would be Urahara and Isshin, whatever ritual they have performed,...
well the "silent appearance" of Tsukushima bothers me, and i mean a lot. hear me out first, what if Tsukushima gathered all of Ichigo's friends and family so he could control them and pull them away from Ichigo who at the moment trusted Kuugo so much..
remember, this conflict started by spilling the first blood and the recent revelation figures out that Kuugo made that first cut.. so let's say that after Tsukushima learnt about what happened, he started making his own move and one by one he took advantage of Ichigo's friends and then his family.
the part which confuses me is why did Tsukushima slashed Ishida? is it because he wants to control him as well.. that is only logical since if Tsukushima is on the good side then having every body moves accordingly would make it easier for Ichigo to take down Kuugo right..
First of all I wanna say,... I want the respective Bleach forum back, because I'm tired of browsing through the Anime Thread, every time I want to discuss in our topic...
But hell yeah, at the moment I cannot say anything, especially about your assumptions. Everything happened so quickly and suddenly, and for now, to me it wouldn't make any sense that Tsukushima should have any other motive than Kuugo.
Well, Ishida's statement that Kuugo was the one who cut him down, was really a shocking turning point, and besides, do you believe me now that Kuugo is really powerful. His Fullbring is awesome and now that he is about to add Ichigo's newly acquired Fullbring powers to his collection, it would boost his power up another notch.
We will see what's going to happen,... my hands are tied with this one, I'm afraid...
lol.. they should make a separate Category for Bleach Anime and manga and not to be grouped in all other series cause when its flooded, it's hard to search for it being buried with random discussions.
okay, so you too are confused here right. just what goes on with the two of them, Tsukushima and Kuugo. is it between those two or one might have an agenda against Ichigo or both. i really don't know here. but to the recent events, i feel Kuugo has a deeper goal here and Tsukushima might really end up being the good guy..
Only when Urahara appears and says nice comments about him, I will believe it,.... but jokes aside, I have calmed down a little bit now, I mean,... I ran off some steam because of some ****that's going on in my real life, man.
I talked to those peeps from animepaper, and they told me they're gonna stick to that style because according to them, some of those sections were used sparingly and they didn't see the needs to keep it that way, so they put all categories back together to our inconvenience. So we gotta abide to the law here.
Well as you said, you never know with Kubo's intentions, all we know is he's made Bleach much better, more sinister, suspenseful and dramatic than Naruto. Another guaranteed year of profit for him.
I mean, now that he more or less got his Shinigami powers back in a fullbring mode, do you think Ichigo is practically able to see Rukia and the others again? Is a fullbring Shingami even able to see other Shinigami?
I mean, think about it, what if either one of the Shinigami suddenly enters the fray and challenges Kuugo,... someone like...
++
.... Zaraki Kenpachi...
++
He would be so excited to have such an unknown foe like Kuugo...
with all the conflicting sinister agenda here, Zaraki would be a great help to clear the mess. finish them off now and talk later - Kenpachi style.
yeah, by now Ichigo can again see Rukia as well as the rest of the Shinigamis. but i don't really believe that Kuugo is that strong.
Another point to throttle is why, if Tsukushima did stab Kuugo, he inserted a memory where Tsukushima appears to be an enemy of Kuugo? since he is able to control the minds by inserting memories, he could insert to Kuugo a memory that'll make him his ally instead of an enemy.. that's a bit to off for the situation right now.
You know what,... I think you're having a heck of a week. I never thought about that in the slightest. I mean what you mentioned would make some sense.
I mean, we don't really even know yet, what connections Kuugo really has with Tsukushima, even after he was stabbed "twice", it's really far to early for me to say that the two are allies. So, sorry, I'll take back what I just said two days ago, for now unless I've witnessed the upcoming scenarios, in which practically everything can happen.
Maybe neither of the two will end up being Ichigo's ally.
no problem, i understand, everything is so sudden and they've caught us all off guard here since we've been expecting something simpler than what have already occurred and that's why Kuubo's over the top of our heads.
though we've witnessed this much of events in such a short notice since the battle started, i still feel very much in the dark here. Urahara and Isshin are wild aces on the loose and i bet they're not so far behind on what's going down with Ichigo.
I mean,... I had such an overwhelming feeling that something nasty is gonna happen at some point, but for Kuugo turning into such a badass after being backstabbed twice, was the shocker of the week for me that left me speechless.
Well of course, Urahara and Isshin have something going on, I mean, they must have sensed something foul in the air ever since the early beginnings of the new arc.
May I refer again to the point in which Kuugo and Ichigo met for the first time and Kuugo mentioned about Urahara and Isshin asking him "How much do you really know about your dad and Urahara???" I guess Kuugo had something to do with both of them and... let me just say, the subsitute Shinigami representative for Kuugo's group "X-cution" that he personally referred to might have been Isshin who might have survived Kuugo's treachery or sth. like that, I mean.... f*** I'm just randomly speculating here...
... but wouldn't it make sense that Isshin was also a substitute Shinigami, I mean,... he must be human since birth because pure Shinigami just have spiritual bodies which cannot be seen by humans, and otherwise he couldn't have had sXXXX with his human wife, hehe...
All random humor apart.... If anything I just mentioned just now turns out to be wrong or nonsense... don't take it seriously, please... until the next edition of Bleach...
just a thought... do you think Kuugo would have had a chance against Ichigo in his Final Getsuga Tenshou powers???
what if all that's Kuugo's doing right now isn't focused on Ichigo but in a way trying to get Urahara or Isshin in that sense. you can never know.. maybe Kuugo and Tsukushima are old acquaintance of Urahara/Isshin.
When this new arc started, the title mentioned was substitute Shinigami, i was thinking about Kuugo and not Ichigo on this reference. but who knows exactly..
I wonder how long Bleach is gonna survive, it has been pretty low in the shonen jump rankings (readers rank their favorite chapters/series every week) since this new arc started. And I can't say I have been enjoying it...
@elleztim: Hell, right... I never thought about that, too. I mean since Kuugo is also Human he could possibly be or could have been a former substitute Shinigami prospect which for some reason he has never achieved or been entrusted, too maybe having something to do with Isshin and Urahara. I think Kuugo was going to extract Ichigo's fullbring anyway in order to make himself more powerful, logical isn't it?
And then what's next for Kuugo? the Shinigami squad in Soul Society???
more or less, probably the same Seiretei Division of Isshin. he can be Isshin's vice-captain for all we know. so aside from the Hougyoku and the vizards, Isshin and Urahara had a deeper secret that could very well explain Ichigo's massive reiatsu.
this might also be linked to the mystery unfolding the King of Soul Society.
So you were first here after all, my friend, but as I said, no matter who's first, can start the discussion:
So now, after I read this chapter just now, which is earlier than before (cause normally I would read the chapters on Thursdays, Thai time which is tomorrow),... let me just conclude that it makes sense that the one who gave Ichigo his first ever Substitute Shinigami powers, would be the one to return it to him, and that person is the lovely Rukia. Maybe it is the last time that it would ever happen which could have had something to do with Isshin's ritual, which, as it appears, is sacrificing his Shinigami powers and pass it on to his eldest offspring, his own son... should he ever lose his Shinigami powers.
So now, I guess Ichigo has become pure spiritual body Shinigami again, and is about to unleash his flashes and furies of Getsuga Tenshous all the way, but without fullbring, am I correct? Seems like fullbring and true Shinigami powers are totally different things...
okay, that clears up everything and i think we got everything wrapped up nicely in this recent chapter right. still, Rukia's cuter that way..
yeah, this kinda reminds me of the first bleach episode when Ichigo received Rukia's power. so this is what Isshin and Urahara's been plotting and from the looks of it, Rukia made it as a VICE-CAPTAIN.. congratz to her..
interesting though, there are some strips around Ichigo which is new to his form. i can't wait for his bankai. the katana in shikai from has somewhat change from a giant knife into a more cunning blade..
@elleztim: Well now,... you claimed that Kuugo might not be so powerful. And if he isn't? Who would be his supreme commander? I mean the leader of the pack must be somewhat powerful, someone who we've either never seen before, in other words, a new enemy, or a good old adversary or former friend vice captain, Captain or whatever, or even a Hollow, former Espada. Because it looks like to me that Kuugo and Tsukushima will be seriously challenged now. And as I've assumed right, they ARE allies who have planned that plot all along by using Ishida as the key decoy for their treacherous schemes...
And besides I would like to hear your opinion about Fullbring and Ichigo's newly regained "true Shinigami powers." Are they two seperate things??? Well here's my take...
... it looks like to me Fullbring and True Shinigami Powers are two different things because, as Shingami the body is purely spiritual, but with Fullbring you fight with your entire HUMAN body as a living thing, and there's of course the Final Getsuga Tenshou Raw power as we've seen in the final battle with Aizen, so in other words a third option kinda, you know what I mean... and Kuugo mentioned that the power Ichigo has attained in his Fullbring training, is HIS, and not Ichigo's, so he enriched himself with Ichigo's Fullbring to make himself more powerful. Does that make sense???
What are Fullbring, true SHingami Powers and possible Getsuga Tenshou Raw power form anyway???
Seems like from my point of view that we won't see a Fullbring Getsuga Tenshou SHinigami power, as I inteded to see.
And my guess is that Isshin sacrificed everything for his son's sake....
EDIT: But there is one more thing I would like to remark when I personally compare Fullbring with pure Shinigami powers:
While in Fullbring mode he looks half mecha, Ichigo looks much more HUMAN in his new "old retro look"
EDIT 2: Well maybe it's time for our friend Vampluva to come back, hehe..
not that i underestimated Kuugo but really, if he's showing his card at this early then he must be nuts to think highly of himself. he did forget about one important fact, Ichigo's connection with the Seiretei and that meets his doom.
okAY, about the comparison:
well, first thing we know is that both are separate from of power, where Shinigami/hollow/Arrancar powers were in spiritual essence called reiatsu, Fullbring is more like physical form. but as we all know, all human powers are coming from their spiritual nature and manifested in physical form.
so where does FUllbring rig its power source aside from Reiatsu.. my guess would be sentiment/emotion which is or might be coming from human cognitive factor which enables Kuugo to manifest their thoughts and emotion and render it into a power called Fullbring..
still, anything go down here and i myself am lost to what is the real difference between the two.
Yo listen to me,... following thought crossed my mind when I just took a dump in the toilet.
You see Ichigo has just regained his full Shinigami powers, hasn't he...
So my guess is, that he will beat the crap out of those two, because IMHO regaining back his pure Shinigami powers with full reiatsu and stuff is the significant turning point and climax in this Arc. This will be Ichigo with a vengeance only that he'll be more powerful than before.
You have stated your opinion about the Fullbring and pure Shinigami powers so beautifully, it makes so much sense that I would like to verify my part here: In other words, Fullbring is a more human physical related Power, while Shinigami Powers have full reiatsu based spiritual energy.
Do you think it's possible to combine both of them? Or would the user have to abandon one of those powers.... I mean we had this scenario already while Ichigo obtained the Final Getsuga Tenshou and sacrificed his Reiatsu and SHinigami powers in that instance to become pure physical...
... and I guess while I mention it,... I think he wasn't able to keep both powers because he wasn't aware of Fullbring powers in the first place,... So I guess if one possess both Shinigami and Fullnbring,... he would be almost the ultimate Life form, haha...
lol.. you sure are enthusiastic about all these stuffs going around bleach. nice to have someone with the same eagerness.
yeah, well my assumption is based on sources. if we are to differentiate Fullbring and Shinigami/Hollow/Arrancar powers then we must divide the human persona. since a human person, have souls/spirit, emotion/mind and lastly the physical body, then we can make a pretty good discussion of their differences.
my first assumption is that Shinigami/hollow/Arrancar defines reiatsu as the manifestation of our soul/spirit.. then we have our physical body that makes our physical strength. lastly is our mind, just like telekinetic power which by theory enables the mind to impose a force to move an object, then i assumed it's the same concept of Fullbring.
Fullbring: to manifest our mind's will plus enforce through emotion into physical form of power, thus the mecha-look of Ichigo. of course, this is one assumption only. there maybe another thing or two about these.
but, Ichigo may have threaded a new path here. he already achieved the fourth dimension of his reiatsu level (after obtaining Shinigami/Hollow power and elevating it to Arrancar level) which Aizen fails to surpass when Ichigo unleash the final getsuga. that purely means the mastery of the soul.
now Ichigo stepped on the power of the human cognition/mind and attached this power to his shinigami powers.. you know what that means right.
You know, Kuugo took Ichigo's Shinigami badge along with his Fullbring powers. Isn't it obvious that he wants it back after what he has done to him?
As I said before, I guess that Ichigo lost his Shinigami powers when he used his Final Getsuga Tenshou because he wasn't aware of Fullbring powers which obviously is so essential for physical form of power as you mention, and thus maintain it's human powers composure.
So then, yes he has reached a forth dimension beyond Shinigami, Hollow-Vizard, Monster-Hollow (Ulqiorra fight), but he lacked the full powers of Fullbring in order to keep Tensa Zangetsu,...
Now if he can obtain both then yes,... he'd be the ultimate Getsuga Tenshou...
EDIT: that came across my mind as well: I guess Rukia's appearance definitely indicates that everybody in Soul society in the mean time has developed their skills in order to dน a better job in defending Soul society and Karakura town from new threats like Ginjou Kuugos squad or whoever future enemy will appear... My guess is Kuugo is just a pawn of some new enemy, or even an old acquaintance from and unknown past...
ok, this that crosses my mind after that Rukia thing crosses yours.. lol.. very weird.
so seriously, Rukia did improved and changed appearance, can't wait to see the rest of soul society.. they should revamp all of them right.
you know what, you just made my theory even more likeable. i was simply trying to assumed things and the way you put them together makes a lot of sense.. i never saw it that way and you can be absolutely right..
assuming it is as what we explained, then Ichigo might solve and removed the one weakness of Final Getsuga making it the Ultimate Getsuga..
what makes of Kuugo and Tsukushima after these, can't wait to see that next chapter. that reminds me, the rest of captains have shown their Bankai as well and the remaining ones are powerful indeed.
because of this turn of events, i can't wait to see the real villain here or will it be the Soul King himself..
Well,... in case you didn't notice, I made a mistake in my last post saying Aizen stole Ichigo's Shinigami batch, but of course I meant KUUGO and not Aizen, (I corrected-edited my mistake just now),... well anyhow, both Kuugo and Tsukushima will face the wrath of Ichigo's re awakend pure spiritual Shinigami powers.
Well in Soul society, like I said before, only a handful of Shinigami acknowledge him as an ally. I don't know how far the legendary battle with Aizen has reached the rest of the Shinigami collection, I mean, whether he got more acknowledgement for practically "saving all their asses" in his battle against their greatest threat in Aizen. He would have even been strong enough to defeat the Captain Commander with that Final Getsuga Tenshou... but anyhow, nobody really talked about Ichigo after that battle, they just shipped in Aizen and went on with their business, that's the way I feel about those "ungrateful Shinigami society". Nobody really talked about Ichigo's heroic act, like usual, hehe... but anyhow, we will see...
... other than that, let's wait and see what happened to Hirako Shinji and the Vizard squad.
I just wish Zaraki Kenpachi would have appeared and saved Ichigo's ass like against Hnoitora, and tell him to stop whining. Zaraki must have become more powerful as well, along with Byakuya... but other than that it made sense that Rukia was the only one capable of reawaken his Shinigami powers.
Anyhow let's see whether with his newly regained Shinigami powers, he really is reunited with Tensa Zangetsu, or is it completely new Bankai...
okay, the reminds me, just what why did Kuugo took the Shinigami batch? did he wanted to become the next Shinigami substitute or he wants something to do with soul society. feels weird but i know there'll be a side story to these.
you think that Zaraki would have a different look that before. i'm thinking at least he can perform Shikai and show what he can do with his Zanpakutou. regarding Ichigo's infamous name on soul society, well he did try to invade or disrupt the order of soul society during his rescue to Rukia so you can't help it if that left some bad taste.
@elleztim: You have a point in inquiring, why Kuugo stole Ichigo's Shinigami badge. The first obvious reason is of course to enrich himself with his power. But I think it may also have to do something with Isshin's past, since as we've mentioned before, Kuugo reminded Ichigo of "What do you really know about your father and Urahara? Do you know their whole story?"
This whole act of Rukia, might indicate the end of Isshin's Shinigami duties... and I guess, just spontaneously, everybody in Soul society who's at least 50 times older than Ichigo, or "the parents" of the current Shinigami generation may know everything about Isshin while he was still active,... the Captain Commander in particular must know Ichigo's father because he's an old, but deadly grandpa already,... something unique must have happened in Soul Society, 'cause I could imagine Isshin, when he was young was quite a rebel like his own son.
... let me just say, Isshin was the first ever Substitute Shinigami, for any known reason, but yet we would have to find out who transmitted Shinigami powers into him. Let's assume also that he was married either before or after that and because of that Ichigo as inherited his powers since birth, while Isshin took care of some kind of threat years ago which restored a few years of peace, as Ichigo grew up, wondering why he could see ghosts and was able to communicate with them even before he ever met Rukia for the first time...
hey dude, doesn't that make sense????
EDIT: Another thought crossed my mind,.... what if Grand Fisher, the Hollow that killed Ichigo's mom in the mean time has become some kind of an Espada who can walk and talk like a real villain... I mean back then when I watched Grimjow's story (Anime version), he was a hollow animal first before he became a real Espada..., and referring it back to my Grand Fisher theory, maybe he could be the real leader of Kuugo and Tsukushima, hehe... wouldn't it be awesome?.... Just a thought.
Hello...I hope you won't mind me giving my opinion on the matter...I really don't think Isshin was a substitute shinigami...Isshin was most likely a captain...probably of the 10º squadron that was forced to leave like Uruhara or chose to leave to live a great love with Ichigo's mother...it can also be related with the fall of the house of Shiba...we never did find out if Ichigo's resemblance with Kaien was coincidence or not...
@Muraki3777: hi. everyone's welcome here in this thread so feel free to put out your thoughts, ok. yeah, that reminds me how Ichigo resembles Kaien and i thought he's the real father or Ichigo's true relative which maybe same as with the resemblance to Rukia and her sister (Byakuya's deceased wife).
@Maxi-Ryu99: i do remember Isshin having the captain's shoulder badge, err.. he did not wore it but it was wrapped with him. Urahara's past was bit by bit explained but Isshin's history is still bleak and like you said, it does have something to do with Ichigo's immense Reiatsu and his ability to see ghost. i wouldn't be surprise at all if ever Ichigo is linked to the Soul King because of Aizen's interest in both.
the Grand Fisher coming back alive on Arrancar level would be an interesting twist if ever. that's a good one since the fight in the past was too short to compensate for the lost but what intrigues me is that during the finale between Soul Society and Aizen, C.C. Yamamoto contacted Urahara but left out Isshin.. there's really a black hole inside bleach right now.
@Muraki3777: Hey, welcome to our official Bleach Discussion thread, you are more than welcome to state your thoughts and opinions here, 'cause all we're doing here is just basing our opinions upon facts from our personal point of view...
@elleztim: I don't know or remember who Kaien is, hehe, I gotta look it up on Bleach wiki.com, hehe... I appreciate that you like my idea about Grand Fisher, because you know, Ichigo's mom's death should have had a big impact on Ichigo and Isshin, and like I said before some Hollows might have the ability to evolve into real life forms who can walk, talk and act like powerful beings. And related to that,... Orihime's brother might also come back to life as an Arrancar, who knows... but that's up to Kubo to decide...
i do like the Grand Fisher theory. it's not an ordinary hollow because it was involved in one of the most important incident in Bleach and to have it come back (which is possible due to the Arrancar evolution) would be something worth to take part in the story.
actually, there's really something going on. allow me to expand it a little. i'm presuming Isshin here is really on a captain rank and that Grand Fisher was the one who killed Ichigo's mother. did you really think that Grand Fisher (killed by Ichigo who hasn't learned bankai yet at that time) would live to see Ichigo grown up. I think Isshin could have done it so easily before since he's a close friend of Urahara and tracking Grand Fisher would be a simple task.
but why did Grand Fisher still end up meeting Ichigo..
I also don't think the meeting between Ichigo and Grand Fisher was coincidence...but personally I think it had the hand of Aizen in it...we know it was Grand Fisher who was behind the transformation of Inoue's brother into a hollow...besides the fact that he appeared on the day Ichigo's mother died when Rukia was being investigated by a shinigami, he was also a failed arrancar experience...we never did see Aizen and him together, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine Aizen ordering him to do all those things...and personally to me it makes much more sense that the Grand Fisher was watching them than the explanation they gave in the anime that Aizen had bug cameras watching what Ichigo and Rukia were doing...
hmmm.. that explains a lot why Grand Fisher was involved in may incidence in Bleach. to tell you the truth, this is the first time i learned about Aizen's connection with the Grand Fisher. it all sounds like Aizen was the one who got Ichigo involved in all of Soul Society stuff, including his fated meeting with Rukia. if that is the case, then Aizen must have really know Ichigo for a long time, even Isshin as well.
it also makes sense why Isshin didn't take out Grand Fisher, if it was Aizen's eyes and ear in the human world. Isshin wants to avoid being exposed and even if the Grand Fisher killed his wife, he can't take action unless he wants to ruin his cover.. but the question remains, how is Aizen really related to both Ichigo and Isshin..
Good question! If Isshin was really a captain, Aizen would have known him...but I have no clue how he could have known about Ichigo or why he would spy on Isshin until Ichigo's birth...it might have something to do with Ichigo's mother...if we take in consideration what we learned about the fullbrings Ichigo's mother was attacked before Ichigo was born...she might have had powers of her own. About Isshin...when we discover that Isshin was a shinigami,he implies that he always carried the burden of not being able to save his wife from the grand fisher...the way he said it seemed to imply that he had no powers at the time...
Well, well, well... you guys. You're bringing in some interesting points, ever since I started to mention Grand Fisher. I have reviewed the two incidents between Grand Fisher's encounter with Ichigo and Isshin to remind myself of his abilities and powers. In the second encounter with Isshin, Grand Fisher became an Arrancar who would grow himself into a giant. Isshin defeated him easily, but it wasn't clarified whether he's dead or not...
... let's see whether, if he were still alive, Grand Fisher has become a full humanoid Espada, I mean really slick, and badass, or even a handsome narcist womanizer with an advanced ability to seduce with fake women.
@Muraki3777: I like your contributions about Ichigo's mum having had powers, even I never thought about that. Good point that you are making
As for now we will have to wait another week, since the Manga seemingly doesn't come out this week.
wait, now i remember why Isshin wasn't able to do anything against Grand Fisher. it was because he lost his powers when he used the Final Getsuga (he used it before as well, if i remember it clearly) and it took him some time before his powers came back and by that time the Grand Fisher managed to transform into an Arrancar.
now, the critical part is this: the time when Ichigo and his mom were attacked by the Grand Fisher.. it meant that the Grand Fisher felt a powerful reaitsu.. to insert Muraki3777's theory.. it would be a twist that it isn't because of Ichigo's power but rather his mom's that got them into Grand Fisher's target.
during that time, i was thinking Isshin could have felt her wife's or Ichigo's reaitsu or even Grand Fishers but i guess he has no way since he lost it after his own Final Getsuga..
the boundary is that we do not know anything more about Ichigo's mom. the thing that bothers me is that do Aizen knows all about these as well?
It appears so...and it isn't hard to imagine it...after all...Uruhara is stuck in the Real World and he still knows everything that happens in Soul Society...it isn't hard to imagine the opposite with Aizen...besides...it's very difficult to hide something from him...look at what happened to Gin...snif snif
quite frankly, i think so too. but even if the curtains fall for Aizen, this doesn't mean a complete end. as for now, his quest is the biggest threat in soul society.
while he used all for Hougyoku, Aizen's real powers and its limit has been shown yet and so is for the rest of the captains.
even Isshin who recently regained his power probably will now be involve here because as shown in the latest chapter, Isshin is alreay part of his son's affair. i think it's high time to see things move once again.
Guys, hold your seats tight, because I came up with a crazy idea...
... what if Ichigo's mom was ...an Arrancar, I mean a former Top rank Espada, who one day grew tired of the evil ways of the Hollow world and thus fell in Love with a Shinigami who was none other than Isshin. This forbidden love would of course cause a lot of turbulences through Soul Society and the Hueco Mundo.
Let me tell you why I think so. The thing is that Ichigo besides his Shinigami powers had a horrible berserk Hollow form inside of him, I mean it must have manifested itself somehow in Ichigo's body. So my point is not only did Ichigo inherit his daddy's Shinigami powers, but possibly from his mom, the Arrancar powers as well, which were awakened alongside his Daddy's Shinigami powers, ever since the day Rukia stabbed him and made him a Substitute Shinigami, because both Shinigami and Hollow powers obviously only work with Reiatsu.
I mean think about, how many times did Ichigo go berserk in Hollow form, how many times did it take over him? A lot. I mean if Ichigo's mom really was a former Espada, it would be no wonder that his Hollow powers randomly go berserk in those deseperate situations and take over Ichigo's conscience?
Here's what I think:
If my theory is correct, I think that Ichigo's love for his mom was so strong that it unconsciously awakened his tremendous, ferocious Hollow powers, every time he was in desperation mode. And by the time that he didn't even learn the Final Getsuga Tenshou or Fullbring, those powers were of course too much to control because it would require a lot of experience and self conscience to be able to balance both powers. Also think about how Tensa Zangetsu merged with Ichigo's horrific Hollowform in order to prevent him from learning the Final Getsuga Tenshou,... where did Ichigo's Hollowform come from in the first place... my guess would be, from none other that his mom, because Hollow powers cannot appear in a new born child withou any logical reason...
... so maybe, Ichigo's mom also used some Final Arrancar Attack to get rid of her powers, or stuff like that, or, in order to become human, transferred part of her Arrancar powers into Ichigo while he was still a child, either one of those...
... and Aizen, Ginjou Kuugo and Tsukushima must have been little brats or young teenies by the time Isshin and Masaki fell in love with each other, and got involved somehow within these affairs....
How do you like that, guys??? I couldn't have made this idea up without your contributions...
it's crazy but the truth is i cannot disregard your theory. maybe you might hit something around the bush. why i'm taking 75% of your theory seriously is because the time Ichigo asked help from Urahara. it was to obtain Shinigami powers.
Accidentally, Ichigo breached the allotted time for him to recover his soul. the result was a hybrid form of Shinigami and Hollow. the part which really gets crazy is that Ichigo was able to maintain sanity which means the hollow part is not purely parasitic. this must meant the somehow in Ichigo's inner blood, he's already tainted by the same power.
plus, Urahara wasn't that surprised at all to see the being in front of him dons a hollow masked with Shinigami reiatsu. he may have already encountered this with his past ordeal with Aizen but for it to occur with Ichigo seems like he already expected it.
@Muraki3777: honestly, i believe Aizen would still come back. he has a grudge on Urahara and he's not the one to give up because he was imprisoned. for someone who was able to create something like the Hougyoku, whether it is imperfect unlike the one Urahara made, could not be stopped so easily.
Ichigo was able to recover his spiritual power so what makes it impossible for someone like Aizen to escape his imprisonment.
Your theory Maxi-Ryu99 is good...there are a lot of things that make sense specially Ichigo's mother being an Espada...It's very possible...after all...Nell did show us that Espadas can love...not to mention Ulquiorra...and it does explain what happened when Ichigo first got his shinigami powers...when he was turning into a hollow his mask appeared first and Uruhara really didn't seem bothered by it like Elleztim said...but...there's something that doesn't make sense...Ichigo's sisters should have the same ammount of power that Ichigo has...and they don't...they do see spirits but it's nothing compared to Ichigo's powers...
Saving…
1 year, 9 months ago
So now Ichigo doesn't have anyone left, Maybe it's time for Urahara and his daddy Isshin to come to the rescue.
Do you remember what Kuugo told Ichigo, "What do you really know about your father and Urahara??" Well actually Kuugo said that while he was in his "good guy" mode, obviously in order to get Ichigo's curiosity going, maybe as a kind of diversion. So it's obvious that he lied to him a little about his father's past...
I mean now that Kuugo has been backstabbed into his former self, the real evil badass, I think that Kuugo must have had some serious ****going on in the past with Isshin and Urahara, maybe having something to do with Ichigo's mom. Maybe he was in love with her and Isshin took her away from him and he wanted revenge...
or in an alternative scenario, Kuugo might have also been connected to Aizen somehow and they plan to free him from Soul Society.
Anyhow it's just speculations over speculations...
Fact is,... Kuugo practically killed 2 birds with one heck of a stone, and left Ichigo heavily injured and without any fellows.... along with his ally Tsukushima.
1 year, 9 months ago
okay, i got your point with Kuugo and there's too many possibilities right now given that we have too much variables as well especially the ones related to Urahara and Isshin.
the crucial part: now we know or we do have an idea of Kuugo's true color, the dangerous part still remains.. whose side is Tsukushima.. this factor isn't cleared yet..
1 year, 9 months ago
So are you telling me, Tsukushima has a motive as well which are different from Kuugo's?
Well, obviously, Tsukushima is evil,... wanna bet? I mean, if he weren't why would he have back stabbed Ichigo's friends just like that. It wouldn't make any sense why Tsukushima would suddenly help Ichigo. The only ones who can help him now would be Urahara and Isshin, whatever ritual they have performed,...
1 year, 9 months ago
well the "silent appearance" of Tsukushima bothers me, and i mean a lot. hear me out first, what if Tsukushima gathered all of Ichigo's friends and family so he could control them and pull them away from Ichigo who at the moment trusted Kuugo so much..
remember, this conflict started by spilling the first blood and the recent revelation figures out that Kuugo made that first cut.. so let's say that after Tsukushima learnt about what happened, he started making his own move and one by one he took advantage of Ichigo's friends and then his family.
the part which confuses me is why did Tsukushima slashed Ishida? is it because he wants to control him as well.. that is only logical since if Tsukushima is on the good side then having every body moves accordingly would make it easier for Ichigo to take down Kuugo right..
what can you say about all these?
1 year, 9 months ago
First of all I wanna say,... I want the respective Bleach forum back, because I'm tired of browsing through the Anime Thread, every time I want to discuss in our topic...
But hell yeah, at the moment I cannot say anything, especially about your assumptions. Everything happened so quickly and suddenly, and for now, to me it wouldn't make any sense that Tsukushima should have any other motive than Kuugo.
Well, Ishida's statement that Kuugo was the one who cut him down, was really a shocking turning point, and besides, do you believe me now that Kuugo is really powerful. His Fullbring is awesome and now that he is about to add Ichigo's newly acquired Fullbring powers to his collection, it would boost his power up another notch.
We will see what's going to happen,... my hands are tied with this one, I'm afraid...
1 year, 9 months ago
rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 year, 9 months ago
lol.. they should make a separate Category for Bleach Anime and manga and not to be grouped in all other series cause when its flooded, it's hard to search for it being buried with random discussions.
okay, so you too are confused here right. just what goes on with the two of them, Tsukushima and Kuugo. is it between those two or one might have an agenda against Ichigo or both. i really don't know here. but to the recent events, i feel Kuugo has a deeper goal here and Tsukushima might really end up being the good guy..
1 year, 9 months ago
Only when Urahara appears and says nice comments about him, I will believe it,.... but jokes aside, I have calmed down a little bit now, I mean,... I ran off some steam because of some ****that's going on in my real life, man.
I talked to those peeps from animepaper, and they told me they're gonna stick to that style because according to them, some of those sections were used sparingly and they didn't see the needs to keep it that way, so they put all categories back together to our inconvenience. So we gotta abide to the law here.
Well as you said, you never know with Kubo's intentions, all we know is he's made Bleach much better, more sinister, suspenseful and dramatic than Naruto. Another guaranteed year of profit for him.
I mean, now that he more or less got his Shinigami powers back in a fullbring mode, do you think Ichigo is practically able to see Rukia and the others again? Is a fullbring Shingami even able to see other Shinigami?
I mean, think about it, what if either one of the Shinigami suddenly enters the fray and challenges Kuugo,... someone like...
++
.... Zaraki Kenpachi...
++
He would be so excited to have such an unknown foe like Kuugo...
1 year, 9 months ago
with all the conflicting sinister agenda here, Zaraki would be a great help to clear the mess. finish them off now and talk later - Kenpachi style.
yeah, by now Ichigo can again see Rukia as well as the rest of the Shinigamis. but i don't really believe that Kuugo is that strong.
Another point to throttle is why, if Tsukushima did stab Kuugo, he inserted a memory where Tsukushima appears to be an enemy of Kuugo? since he is able to control the minds by inserting memories, he could insert to Kuugo a memory that'll make him his ally instead of an enemy.. that's a bit to off for the situation right now.
1 year, 9 months ago
You know what,... I think you're having a heck of a week. I never thought about that in the slightest. I mean what you mentioned would make some sense.
I mean, we don't really even know yet, what connections Kuugo really has with Tsukushima, even after he was stabbed "twice", it's really far to early for me to say that the two are allies. So, sorry, I'll take back what I just said two days ago, for now unless I've witnessed the upcoming scenarios, in which practically everything can happen.
Maybe neither of the two will end up being Ichigo's ally.
1 year, 9 months ago
no problem, i understand, everything is so sudden and they've caught us all off guard here since we've been expecting something simpler than what have already occurred and that's why Kuubo's over the top of our heads.
though we've witnessed this much of events in such a short notice since the battle started, i still feel very much in the dark here. Urahara and Isshin are wild aces on the loose and i bet they're not so far behind on what's going down with Ichigo.
1 year, 9 months ago
I mean,... I had such an overwhelming feeling that something nasty is gonna happen at some point, but for Kuugo turning into such a badass after being backstabbed twice, was the shocker of the week for me that left me speechless.
Well of course, Urahara and Isshin have something going on, I mean, they must have sensed something foul in the air ever since the early beginnings of the new arc.
May I refer again to the point in which Kuugo and Ichigo met for the first time and Kuugo mentioned about Urahara and Isshin asking him "How much do you really know about your dad and Urahara???" I guess Kuugo had something to do with both of them and... let me just say, the subsitute Shinigami representative for Kuugo's group "X-cution" that he personally referred to might have been Isshin who might have survived Kuugo's treachery or sth. like that, I mean.... f*** I'm just randomly speculating here...
... but wouldn't it make sense that Isshin was also a substitute Shinigami, I mean,... he must be human since birth because pure Shinigami just have spiritual bodies which cannot be seen by humans, and otherwise he couldn't have had sXXXX with his human wife, hehe...
All random humor apart.... If anything I just mentioned just now turns out to be wrong or nonsense... don't take it seriously, please... until the next edition of Bleach...
just a thought... do you think Kuugo would have had a chance against Ichigo in his Final Getsuga Tenshou powers???
1 year, 9 months ago
what if all that's Kuugo's doing right now isn't focused on Ichigo but in a way trying to get Urahara or Isshin in that sense. you can never know.. maybe Kuugo and Tsukushima are old acquaintance of Urahara/Isshin.
When this new arc started, the title mentioned was substitute Shinigami, i was thinking about Kuugo and not Ichigo on this reference. but who knows exactly..
1 year, 9 months ago
I wonder how long Bleach is gonna survive, it has been pretty low in the shonen jump rankings (readers rank their favorite chapters/series every week) since this new arc started. And I can't say I have been enjoying it...
1 year, 9 months ago
@elleztim: Hell, right... I never thought about that, too. I mean since Kuugo is also Human he could possibly be or could have been a former substitute Shinigami prospect which for some reason he has never achieved or been entrusted, too maybe having something to do with Isshin and Urahara. I think Kuugo was going to extract Ichigo's fullbring anyway in order to make himself more powerful, logical isn't it?
And then what's next for Kuugo? the Shinigami squad in Soul Society???
1 year, 9 months ago
more or less, probably the same Seiretei Division of Isshin. he can be Isshin's vice-captain for all we know. so aside from the Hougyoku and the vizards, Isshin and Urahara had a deeper secret that could very well explain Ichigo's massive reiatsu.
this might also be linked to the mystery unfolding the King of Soul Society.
1 year, 9 months ago
OMGGGG RUKIA CUT HER HAIR!!!!!! CUTE TTM!!! >v<
1 year, 9 months ago
she's cuter than Inoue after she cut her hair. wow, this is a good treat from Kuubo. but isn't that just a pigment of Ichigo's imagination..
finally, Ichigo have completed and fully returned to being a Shinigami once again..err.. thanks to (cute XD) Rukia
1 year, 9 months ago
Rukia is cuter than Inoue ever since the beginning!! (≧▽≦)/
1 year, 9 months ago
that's debatable but i guess seeing her now left no room for competition
1 year, 9 months ago
So you were first here after all, my friend, but as I said, no matter who's first, can start the discussion:
So now, after I read this chapter just now, which is earlier than before (cause normally I would read the chapters on Thursdays, Thai time which is tomorrow),... let me just conclude that it makes sense that the one who gave Ichigo his first ever Substitute Shinigami powers, would be the one to return it to him, and that person is the lovely Rukia. Maybe it is the last time that it would ever happen which could have had something to do with Isshin's ritual, which, as it appears, is sacrificing his Shinigami powers and pass it on to his eldest offspring, his own son... should he ever lose his Shinigami powers.
So now, I guess Ichigo has become pure spiritual body Shinigami again, and is about to unleash his flashes and furies of Getsuga Tenshous all the way, but without fullbring, am I correct? Seems like fullbring and true Shinigami powers are totally different things...
1 year, 9 months ago
okay, that clears up everything and i think we got everything wrapped up nicely in this recent chapter right. still, Rukia's cuter that way..
yeah, this kinda reminds me of the first bleach episode when Ichigo received Rukia's power. so this is what Isshin and Urahara's been plotting and from the looks of it, Rukia made it as a VICE-CAPTAIN.. congratz to her..
interesting though, there are some strips around Ichigo which is new to his form. i can't wait for his bankai. the katana in shikai from has somewhat change from a giant knife into a more cunning blade..
1 year, 9 months ago
@elleztim: Well now,... you claimed that Kuugo might not be so powerful. And if he isn't? Who would be his supreme commander? I mean the leader of the pack must be somewhat powerful, someone who we've either never seen before, in other words, a new enemy, or a good old adversary or former friend vice captain, Captain or whatever, or even a Hollow, former Espada. Because it looks like to me that Kuugo and Tsukushima will be seriously challenged now. And as I've assumed right, they ARE allies who have planned that plot all along by using Ishida as the key decoy for their treacherous schemes...
And besides I would like to hear your opinion about Fullbring and Ichigo's newly regained "true Shinigami powers." Are they two seperate things??? Well here's my take...
... it looks like to me Fullbring and True Shinigami Powers are two different things because, as Shingami the body is purely spiritual, but with Fullbring you fight with your entire HUMAN body as a living thing, and there's of course the Final Getsuga Tenshou Raw power as we've seen in the final battle with Aizen, so in other words a third option kinda, you know what I mean... and Kuugo mentioned that the power Ichigo has attained in his Fullbring training, is HIS, and not Ichigo's, so he enriched himself with Ichigo's Fullbring to make himself more powerful. Does that make sense???
What are Fullbring, true SHingami Powers and possible Getsuga Tenshou Raw power form anyway???
Seems like from my point of view that we won't see a Fullbring Getsuga Tenshou SHinigami power, as I inteded to see.
And my guess is that Isshin sacrificed everything for his son's sake....
EDIT: But there is one more thing I would like to remark when I personally compare Fullbring with pure Shinigami powers:
While in Fullbring mode he looks half mecha, Ichigo looks much more HUMAN in his new "old retro look"
EDIT 2: Well maybe it's time for our friend Vampluva to come back, hehe..
1 year, 9 months ago
not that i underestimated Kuugo but really, if he's showing his card at this early then he must be nuts to think highly of himself. he did forget about one important fact, Ichigo's connection with the Seiretei and that meets his doom.
okAY, about the comparison:
well, first thing we know is that both are separate from of power, where Shinigami/hollow/Arrancar powers were in spiritual essence called reiatsu, Fullbring is more like physical form. but as we all know, all human powers are coming from their spiritual nature and manifested in physical form.
so where does FUllbring rig its power source aside from Reiatsu.. my guess would be sentiment/emotion which is or might be coming from human cognitive factor which enables Kuugo to manifest their thoughts and emotion and render it into a power called Fullbring..
still, anything go down here and i myself am lost to what is the real difference between the two.
1 year, 9 months ago
Yo listen to me,... following thought crossed my mind when I just took a dump in the toilet.
You see Ichigo has just regained his full Shinigami powers, hasn't he...
So my guess is, that he will beat the crap out of those two, because IMHO regaining back his pure Shinigami powers with full reiatsu and stuff is the significant turning point and climax in this Arc. This will be Ichigo with a vengeance only that he'll be more powerful than before.
You have stated your opinion about the Fullbring and pure Shinigami powers so beautifully, it makes so much sense that I would like to verify my part here: In other words, Fullbring is a more human physical related Power, while Shinigami Powers have full reiatsu based spiritual energy.
Do you think it's possible to combine both of them? Or would the user have to abandon one of those powers.... I mean we had this scenario already while Ichigo obtained the Final Getsuga Tenshou and sacrificed his Reiatsu and SHinigami powers in that instance to become pure physical...
... and I guess while I mention it,... I think he wasn't able to keep both powers because he wasn't aware of Fullbring powers in the first place,... So I guess if one possess both Shinigami and Fullnbring,... he would be almost the ultimate Life form, haha...
Fullbring = Half man, half machine
Shinigami = Pure handsomeness and human
1 year, 9 months ago
lol.. you sure are enthusiastic about all these stuffs going around bleach. nice to have someone with the same eagerness.
yeah, well my assumption is based on sources. if we are to differentiate Fullbring and Shinigami/Hollow/Arrancar powers then we must divide the human persona. since a human person, have souls/spirit, emotion/mind and lastly the physical body, then we can make a pretty good discussion of their differences.
my first assumption is that Shinigami/hollow/Arrancar defines reiatsu as the manifestation of our soul/spirit.. then we have our physical body that makes our physical strength. lastly is our mind, just like telekinetic power which by theory enables the mind to impose a force to move an object, then i assumed it's the same concept of Fullbring.
Fullbring: to manifest our mind's will plus enforce through emotion into physical form of power, thus the mecha-look of Ichigo. of course, this is one assumption only. there maybe another thing or two about these.
but, Ichigo may have threaded a new path here. he already achieved the fourth dimension of his reiatsu level (after obtaining Shinigami/Hollow power and elevating it to Arrancar level) which Aizen fails to surpass when Ichigo unleash the final getsuga. that purely means the mastery of the soul.
now Ichigo stepped on the power of the human cognition/mind and attached this power to his shinigami powers.. you know what that means right.
1 year, 9 months ago
You know, Kuugo took Ichigo's Shinigami badge along with his Fullbring powers. Isn't it obvious that he wants it back after what he has done to him?
As I said before, I guess that Ichigo lost his Shinigami powers when he used his Final Getsuga Tenshou because he wasn't aware of Fullbring powers which obviously is so essential for physical form of power as you mention, and thus maintain it's human powers composure.
So then, yes he has reached a forth dimension beyond Shinigami, Hollow-Vizard, Monster-Hollow (Ulqiorra fight), but he lacked the full powers of Fullbring in order to keep Tensa Zangetsu,...
Now if he can obtain both then yes,... he'd be the ultimate Getsuga Tenshou...
EDIT: that came across my mind as well: I guess Rukia's appearance definitely indicates that everybody in Soul society in the mean time has developed their skills in order to dน a better job in defending Soul society and Karakura town from new threats like Ginjou Kuugos squad or whoever future enemy will appear... My guess is Kuugo is just a pawn of some new enemy, or even an old acquaintance from and unknown past...
1 year, 9 months ago
ok, this that crosses my mind after that Rukia thing crosses yours.. lol.. very weird.
so seriously, Rukia did improved and changed appearance, can't wait to see the rest of soul society.. they should revamp all of them right.
you know what, you just made my theory even more likeable. i was simply trying to assumed things and the way you put them together makes a lot of sense.. i never saw it that way and you can be absolutely right..
assuming it is as what we explained, then Ichigo might solve and removed the one weakness of Final Getsuga making it the Ultimate Getsuga..
what makes of Kuugo and Tsukushima after these, can't wait to see that next chapter. that reminds me, the rest of captains have shown their Bankai as well and the remaining ones are powerful indeed.
because of this turn of events, i can't wait to see the real villain here or will it be the Soul King himself..
1 year, 9 months ago
Well,... in case you didn't notice, I made a mistake in my last post saying Aizen stole Ichigo's Shinigami batch, but of course I meant KUUGO and not Aizen, (I corrected-edited my mistake just now),... well anyhow, both Kuugo and Tsukushima will face the wrath of Ichigo's re awakend pure spiritual Shinigami powers.
Well in Soul society, like I said before, only a handful of Shinigami acknowledge him as an ally. I don't know how far the legendary battle with Aizen has reached the rest of the Shinigami collection, I mean, whether he got more acknowledgement for practically "saving all their asses" in his battle against their greatest threat in Aizen. He would have even been strong enough to defeat the Captain Commander with that Final Getsuga Tenshou... but anyhow, nobody really talked about Ichigo after that battle, they just shipped in Aizen and went on with their business, that's the way I feel about those "ungrateful Shinigami society". Nobody really talked about Ichigo's heroic act, like usual, hehe... but anyhow, we will see...
... other than that, let's wait and see what happened to Hirako Shinji and the Vizard squad.
I just wish Zaraki Kenpachi would have appeared and saved Ichigo's ass like against Hnoitora, and tell him to stop whining. Zaraki must have become more powerful as well, along with Byakuya... but other than that it made sense that Rukia was the only one capable of reawaken his Shinigami powers.
Anyhow let's see whether with his newly regained Shinigami powers, he really is reunited with Tensa Zangetsu, or is it completely new Bankai...
1 year, 9 months ago
okay, the reminds me, just what why did Kuugo took the Shinigami batch? did he wanted to become the next Shinigami substitute or he wants something to do with soul society. feels weird but i know there'll be a side story to these.
you think that Zaraki would have a different look that before. i'm thinking at least he can perform Shikai and show what he can do with his Zanpakutou. regarding Ichigo's infamous name on soul society, well he did try to invade or disrupt the order of soul society during his rescue to Rukia so you can't help it if that left some bad taste.
1 year, 9 months ago
@elleztim: You have a point in inquiring, why Kuugo stole Ichigo's Shinigami badge. The first obvious reason is of course to enrich himself with his power. But I think it may also have to do something with Isshin's past, since as we've mentioned before, Kuugo reminded Ichigo of "What do you really know about your father and Urahara? Do you know their whole story?"
This whole act of Rukia, might indicate the end of Isshin's Shinigami duties... and I guess, just spontaneously, everybody in Soul society who's at least 50 times older than Ichigo, or "the parents" of the current Shinigami generation may know everything about Isshin while he was still active,... the Captain Commander in particular must know Ichigo's father because he's an old, but deadly grandpa already,... something unique must have happened in Soul Society, 'cause I could imagine Isshin, when he was young was quite a rebel like his own son.
... let me just say, Isshin was the first ever Substitute Shinigami, for any known reason, but yet we would have to find out who transmitted Shinigami powers into him. Let's assume also that he was married either before or after that and because of that Ichigo as inherited his powers since birth, while Isshin took care of some kind of threat years ago which restored a few years of peace, as Ichigo grew up, wondering why he could see ghosts and was able to communicate with them even before he ever met Rukia for the first time...
hey dude, doesn't that make sense????
EDIT: Another thought crossed my mind,.... what if Grand Fisher, the Hollow that killed Ichigo's mom in the mean time has become some kind of an Espada who can walk and talk like a real villain... I mean back then when I watched Grimjow's story (Anime version), he was a hollow animal first before he became a real Espada..., and referring it back to my Grand Fisher theory, maybe he could be the real leader of Kuugo and Tsukushima, hehe... wouldn't it be awesome?.... Just a thought.
1 year, 9 months ago
Hello...I hope you won't mind me giving my opinion on the matter...I really don't think Isshin was a substitute shinigami...Isshin was most likely a captain...probably of the 10º squadron that was forced to leave like Uruhara or chose to leave to live a great love with Ichigo's mother...it can also be related with the fall of the house of Shiba...we never did find out if Ichigo's resemblance with Kaien was coincidence or not...
1 year, 9 months ago
@Muraki3777: hi. everyone's welcome here in this thread so feel free to put out your thoughts, ok. yeah, that reminds me how Ichigo resembles Kaien and i thought he's the real father or Ichigo's true relative which maybe same as with the resemblance to Rukia and her sister (Byakuya's deceased wife).
@Maxi-Ryu99: i do remember Isshin having the captain's shoulder badge, err.. he did not wore it but it was wrapped with him. Urahara's past was bit by bit explained but Isshin's history is still bleak and like you said, it does have something to do with Ichigo's immense Reiatsu and his ability to see ghost. i wouldn't be surprise at all if ever Ichigo is linked to the Soul King because of Aizen's interest in both.
the Grand Fisher coming back alive on Arrancar level would be an interesting twist if ever. that's a good one since the fight in the past was too short to compensate for the lost but what intrigues me is that during the finale between Soul Society and Aizen, C.C. Yamamoto contacted Urahara but left out Isshin.. there's really a black hole inside bleach right now.
1 year, 9 months ago
@Muraki3777: Hey, welcome to our official Bleach Discussion thread, you are more than welcome to state your thoughts and opinions here, 'cause all we're doing here is just basing our opinions upon facts from our personal point of view...
@elleztim: I don't know or remember who Kaien is, hehe, I gotta look it up on Bleach wiki.com, hehe... I appreciate that you like my idea about Grand Fisher, because you know, Ichigo's mom's death should have had a big impact on Ichigo and Isshin, and like I said before some Hollows might have the ability to evolve into real life forms who can walk, talk and act like powerful beings. And related to that,... Orihime's brother might also come back to life as an Arrancar, who knows... but that's up to Kubo to decide...
1 year, 9 months ago
i do like the Grand Fisher theory. it's not an ordinary hollow because it was involved in one of the most important incident in Bleach and to have it come back (which is possible due to the Arrancar evolution) would be something worth to take part in the story.
actually, there's really something going on. allow me to expand it a little. i'm presuming Isshin here is really on a captain rank and that Grand Fisher was the one who killed Ichigo's mother. did you really think that Grand Fisher (killed by Ichigo who hasn't learned bankai yet at that time) would live to see Ichigo grown up. I think Isshin could have done it so easily before since he's a close friend of Urahara and tracking Grand Fisher would be a simple task.
but why did Grand Fisher still end up meeting Ichigo..
1 year, 9 months ago
thank you for the warm welcome.
I also don't think the meeting between Ichigo and Grand Fisher was coincidence...but personally I think it had the hand of Aizen in it...we know it was Grand Fisher who was behind the transformation of Inoue's brother into a hollow...besides the fact that he appeared on the day Ichigo's mother died when Rukia was being investigated by a shinigami, he was also a failed arrancar experience...we never did see Aizen and him together, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine Aizen ordering him to do all those things...and personally to me it makes much more sense that the Grand Fisher was watching them than the explanation they gave in the anime that Aizen had bug cameras watching what Ichigo and Rukia were doing...
1 year, 9 months ago
hmmm.. that explains a lot why Grand Fisher was involved in may incidence in Bleach. to tell you the truth, this is the first time i learned about Aizen's connection with the Grand Fisher. it all sounds like Aizen was the one who got Ichigo involved in all of Soul Society stuff, including his fated meeting with Rukia. if that is the case, then Aizen must have really know Ichigo for a long time, even Isshin as well.
it also makes sense why Isshin didn't take out Grand Fisher, if it was Aizen's eyes and ear in the human world. Isshin wants to avoid being exposed and even if the Grand Fisher killed his wife, he can't take action unless he wants to ruin his cover.. but the question remains, how is Aizen really related to both Ichigo and Isshin..
1 year, 9 months ago
Good question! If Isshin was really a captain, Aizen would have known him...but I have no clue how he could have known about Ichigo or why he would spy on Isshin until Ichigo's birth...it might have something to do with Ichigo's mother...if we take in consideration what we learned about the fullbrings Ichigo's mother was attacked before Ichigo was born...she might have had powers of her own.
About Isshin...when we discover that Isshin was a shinigami,he implies that he always carried the burden of not being able to save his wife from the grand fisher...the way he said it seemed to imply that he had no powers at the time...
1 year, 9 months ago
Well, well, well... you guys. You're bringing in some interesting points, ever since I started to mention Grand Fisher. I have reviewed the two incidents between Grand Fisher's encounter with Ichigo and Isshin to remind myself of his abilities and powers. In the second encounter with Isshin, Grand Fisher became an Arrancar who would grow himself into a giant. Isshin defeated him easily, but it wasn't clarified whether he's dead or not...
... let's see whether, if he were still alive, Grand Fisher has become a full humanoid Espada, I mean really slick, and badass, or even a handsome narcist womanizer with an advanced ability to seduce with fake women.
@Muraki3777: I like your contributions about Ichigo's mum having had powers, even I never thought about that. Good point that you are making
As for now we will have to wait another week, since the Manga seemingly doesn't come out this week.
1 year, 9 months ago
wait, now i remember why Isshin wasn't able to do anything against Grand Fisher. it was because he lost his powers when he used the Final Getsuga (he used it before as well, if i remember it clearly) and it took him some time before his powers came back and by that time the Grand Fisher managed to transform into an Arrancar.
now, the critical part is this: the time when Ichigo and his mom were attacked by the Grand Fisher.. it meant that the Grand Fisher felt a powerful reaitsu.. to insert Muraki3777's theory.. it would be a twist that it isn't because of Ichigo's power but rather his mom's that got them into Grand Fisher's target.
during that time, i was thinking Isshin could have felt her wife's or Ichigo's reaitsu or even Grand Fishers but i guess he has no way since he lost it after his own Final Getsuga..
the boundary is that we do not know anything more about Ichigo's mom. the thing that bothers me is that do Aizen knows all about these as well?
1 year, 9 months ago
It appears so...and it isn't hard to imagine it...after all...Uruhara is stuck in the Real World and he still knows everything that happens in Soul Society...it isn't hard to imagine the opposite with Aizen...besides...it's very difficult to hide something from him...look at what happened to Gin...snif snif
1 year, 9 months ago
quite frankly, i think so too. but even if the curtains fall for Aizen, this doesn't mean a complete end. as for now, his quest is the biggest threat in soul society.
while he used all for Hougyoku, Aizen's real powers and its limit has been shown yet and so is for the rest of the captains.
even Isshin who recently regained his power probably will now be involve here because as shown in the latest chapter, Isshin is alreay part of his son's affair. i think it's high time to see things move once again.
1 year, 9 months ago
Yeah! I agree! I don't think we seen the last of Aizen...if the King's matter does come to light in Bleach I am 99% certain Aizen will be needed!
1 year, 9 months ago
Guys, hold your seats tight, because I came up with a crazy idea...
... what if Ichigo's mom was ...an Arrancar, I mean a former Top rank Espada, who one day grew tired of the evil ways of the Hollow world and thus fell in Love with a Shinigami who was none other than Isshin. This forbidden love would of course cause a lot of turbulences through Soul Society and the Hueco Mundo.
Let me tell you why I think so. The thing is that Ichigo besides his Shinigami powers had a horrible berserk Hollow form inside of him, I mean it must have manifested itself somehow in Ichigo's body. So my point is not only did Ichigo inherit his daddy's Shinigami powers, but possibly from his mom, the Arrancar powers as well, which were awakened alongside his Daddy's Shinigami powers, ever since the day Rukia stabbed him and made him a Substitute Shinigami, because both Shinigami and Hollow powers obviously only work with Reiatsu.
I mean think about, how many times did Ichigo go berserk in Hollow form, how many times did it take over him? A lot. I mean if Ichigo's mom really was a former Espada, it would be no wonder that his Hollow powers randomly go berserk in those deseperate situations and take over Ichigo's conscience?
Here's what I think:
If my theory is correct, I think that Ichigo's love for his mom was so strong that it unconsciously awakened his tremendous, ferocious Hollow powers, every time he was in desperation mode. And by the time that he didn't even learn the Final Getsuga Tenshou or Fullbring, those powers were of course too much to control because it would require a lot of experience and self conscience to be able to balance both powers. Also think about how Tensa Zangetsu merged with Ichigo's horrific Hollowform in order to prevent him from learning the Final Getsuga Tenshou,... where did Ichigo's Hollowform come from in the first place... my guess would be, from none other that his mom, because Hollow powers cannot appear in a new born child withou any logical reason...
... so maybe, Ichigo's mom also used some Final Arrancar Attack to get rid of her powers, or stuff like that, or, in order to become human, transferred part of her Arrancar powers into Ichigo while he was still a child, either one of those...
... and Aizen, Ginjou Kuugo and Tsukushima must have been little brats or young teenies by the time Isshin and Masaki fell in love with each other, and got involved somehow within these affairs....
How do you like that, guys??? I couldn't have made this idea up without your contributions...
1 year, 9 months ago
it's crazy but the truth is i cannot disregard your theory. maybe you might hit something around the bush. why i'm taking 75% of your theory seriously is because the time Ichigo asked help from Urahara. it was to obtain Shinigami powers.
Accidentally, Ichigo breached the allotted time for him to recover his soul. the result was a hybrid form of Shinigami and Hollow. the part which really gets crazy is that Ichigo was able to maintain sanity which means the hollow part is not purely parasitic. this must meant the somehow in Ichigo's inner blood, he's already tainted by the same power.
plus, Urahara wasn't that surprised at all to see the being in front of him dons a hollow masked with Shinigami reiatsu. he may have already encountered this with his past ordeal with Aizen but for it to occur with Ichigo seems like he already expected it.
@Muraki3777: honestly, i believe Aizen would still come back. he has a grudge on Urahara and he's not the one to give up because he was imprisoned. for someone who was able to create something like the Hougyoku, whether it is imperfect unlike the one Urahara made, could not be stopped so easily.
Ichigo was able to recover his spiritual power so what makes it impossible for someone like Aizen to escape his imprisonment.
1 year, 9 months ago
Your theory Maxi-Ryu99 is good...there are a lot of things that make sense specially Ichigo's mother being an Espada...It's very possible...after all...Nell did show us that Espadas can love...not to mention Ulquiorra...and it does explain what happened when Ichigo first got his shinigami powers...when he was turning into a hollow his mask appeared first and Uruhara really didn't seem bothered by it like Elleztim said...but...there's something that doesn't make sense...Ichigo's sisters should have the same ammount of power that Ichigo has...and they don't...they do see spirits but it's nothing compared to Ichigo's powers...