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first off, when you listed the recap of major events in Ichigo's life, it looks like someone is preparing him to fight some super powerful being. that someone might be targeting the Soul King. what if Ichigo is the one destined to fight the soul king. even the chapter of Hougyoku ain't close yet.
remember, only Aizen was sealed but what then happened to the Hougyoku?
secondly, in all that scene, for atleast 3 chapter, Tsukushima did just vanish right? not only that, by now, Chad, Inoue and the rest should already be there. is Tsukushima preparing them for backup for Kuugo?
Well, the possibility for that to happen couldn't be further from the truth. Nobody has broken Tsukushima's curse yet, so of course the ones who were back stabbed would follow his orders and attack Ichigo and the currently assembled Shinigami squad. Remember that Chado and Orihime protected Tsukushima when Ichigo attacked with his fullbring powers.
And you know, fighting your closest friends when they are cursed, is a very hard/"heart" thing to do... no matter how much power one has gained...
.... oh yes,... and we shouldn't forget about the rest of Kuugo's Squad, you know,... the Butler, the Doll house lady and that "Nintendo DS Master boy"
but i never see Tsukushima on a big offense. if it were Kuugo, he'd be bashing through all of them. there's a chance that Tsukushima will be taking them as hostage and even his comrades which i'm not so sure if they were just under the curse.
but like i said, if Ichigo goes far like this, it would seem a very powerful opponent will come and meet him at the near future.
Yeah...I agree...I think this is all preparation for the arc of the King of Soul Society...but I really don't see where the other fullbringers come into the story...they can either be Kuugo's allies or are being used by him...
The Hougyoku is still fused to Aizen...that's why Aizen was sealed and given such a long sentence...because the Hougyoku turned him to a immortal...and I really do think that his wish to face the King will eventually be granted...
it's quite unusual isn't it. Ichigo's growth seems more like a handy work of someone interested in him gaining that much strength, say like his father or Urahara. last time, Aizen did mentioned that he was responsible for Ichigo's growth.
that time, i kept thinking, Aizen was using Ichigo to measure his own strength and he is either deviating from his main goal of destroying the soul king or his also interested about Ichigo's being.
by the norms of the bleach world, Ichigo's persona is and will always be something like heretic. he is having a combination of power that is a contradiction to each other.
yeah...you're right about that! I think the only reason why he still isn't being harassed by the Central 46 is because he tecnically is still alive...
yeah, i forgot how the higher ups of Soul Society plays the major force here, the infamous Central 46 which is of course, another mystery here.
well to parallel this to naruto world.. Naruto was given the gift of Kyuubi's power by his own father the 4th Hokage so that he could have the power to stop Madara and protect Konoha.
Ichigo is having an enormous amount of power which is still pretty much in its latent form. now, the missing part is who plays the role of Madara in bleach?
Hey, guys think about this for a minute. Do you guys all remember what Kuugo told Ichigo, the first time they met at Ichigo's part time job place?
"What do you really know about your dad and Urahara..."
... and that leads to my assumption that based on the latest chapters and according to Hitsugaya Toushiro explanations, I assume that it could have been Isshin who transferred his entire Shinigami powers onto Ginjou Kuugo, because he may have regarded him as the most worthy to pass on his duties to and the other reason would have been, he traded of or let's say sacrificed a sacred life in Soul Society as a high rank captain for an ordinary Human life with his wife on earth, assuming of course the fact "before Ichigo was even born"... In other words, I guess Isshin kinda had enough of the traditional ways of Soul Society for several reasons, e.g. assuming that Ichigo's mom was an arrancar and he just fell in love with her,... and I mean that is already something forbidden in Soul society, and the possibility to transfer his powers onto another one would have been the second crime.
I guess all those people that I mentioned, Isshin, Urahara, Ginjou Kuugo, even Rukia, by transferring her Shinigami powers onto Ichigo, ...each one of them did something that went against the traditional laws of Soul society, and Ichigo became part of it as well and is therefore consumed by that mysterious auras of past disputes and consequential events...
It's a very good theory!
something had to happen between those three...Isshin and Uruhara moved very quickly after Kuugo appeared...but Kuugo's age is bothering me a bit...he had to be Ichigo's age more or less when it happened no? I think Kuugo was probably betrayed like the Quincys...
Soul society changed after the murder of the members of the central 46...yama-gi gained decision power after and I am guessing he kept it even after the central was restaured...after all...they did find out how dangerous it was to annoy the wrong shinigami.
ps - Elleztim...I don't read or watch Naruto so I didn't understand the reference...sorry...
@Muraki3777: that's okay, it's just that they style of creating the plot seems similar to me, that's why i was thinking there'd be another reason for Ichigo's insane strength.
@Maxi-Ryu99: that theory of yours could very well fit in. i mean, the missing piece holds together with your assumption and it's not too far from reality. wasn't Aizen the one controlling Central 46 by that time and Isshin had found out about it?
in addition to all these, i've recently seen the Bleach 4th movie: Hell Arc. it was amazing but i noted something very important in there. not to spoil but Commander Yama-gi personally said to Ichigo that his demon inside is very well capable of destroying "the chain" that was invulnerable for many centuries.
it's nothing related to the manga but it's a description of how powerful Ichigo has become. there must be a reason for his strength and there IS someone who wants to use that power as well.
Well, okay,... now that we have learned about Fullbring as well, and that we are about to see an epic battle between Ginjou Kuugo and Ichigo Kurosaki, one question comes to my mind? A very simple one...
... if every Shinigami put their Reiatsu into Urahara sword to awaken Ichigo's powers, is he then actually re-united with Tensa Zangetsu? Or is a completely new Zanpakto with a new reborn spirit self that we would have to yet discover?
Otherwise every time he uses another Final Getsuga Tenshou, he would practically lose his Shinigami powers again.
I mean, when Ichigo attained the Final Getsuga Tenshou for the first time, Tensa Zangetsu by that time swore to protect Ichigo by vehemently trying to prevent him from attaining the Final Getsuga Tenshou because it meant for Ichigo to lose all his Shinigami powers, as we all witnessed. So my guess is, Ichigo wouldn't go into that RAW POWER state like in that Aizen battle again with Kuugo. So let's say in order to get his Badge back, he must defeat Ginjou Kuugo, and when he defeats him and gets the Badge back,... can he just reunite the Fullbring powers with his newly acquired and stronger Shinigami Powers?
Let's hear your thoughts, guys.
yes, i think his reiatsu once again awakens Zangetsu/Tensa Zangetsu because they are one and the same as Ichigo's being manifested by his reiatsu.
your other question regarding the Final Getsuga, since Ichigo's reiatsu was sourced back thanks to the reiatsu transfer organized hy Urahara, then surely he can once again use the Final Getsuga. though, i'm not sure if the same condition applies, referring to it's requirement to released all his power in that technique. this is because we still don't know how the fullbring will work here.
what we know is that after using the Final Getsuga, Ichigo's power have returned to it's dormant state or more likely to a form which is lesser to be considered as reiatsu. i think because of the infused shinigami powers, it opens up again the door for Ichigo to tap the source. it closes everytime Ichigo uses the Final Getsuga. then you can say that the fullbring can re-open that once again but requires a little touch of reiatsu to ignite it.
I think he can...after all he is already in his shinigami form and there are traces of his fullbring armor on him even so...I think both powers can be fused...and that probably explains why Kuugo was a shinigami substitute...or maybe not..
I also think the sword is Zangetsu in all his glory...but I really have no clue how all these powers will blend together with the hollow part and if the final getsuga tenshou will be seen again...
right, as far as i know, the hollow part doesn't play nice and does not mutually agree with Ichigo. as always, his hollow side acts concretely based on instinct. only when Ichigo is in grave danger, it will act nicely to lend its power, other than that, it will devour any source of Ichigo's power, fullbring or shinigami.
@elleztim: Okay, now that you have mentioned it, I got myself a look at the Bleach movie 4. And Ichigo's Final Transformation against that devil guy, I feel kinda, that it indicated a tendency of "his future Fullbring" abilities which are yet to be awakened, or let's say have been fully awakened at the current state of the Manga chapters, after he met Kuugo. Well of course before he met Kuugo, there was no way that he could have had known about Fullbring, and that in the movie, it kinda happened by coincidence only that in the last heroic seconds, his monsterous Hollowform transformation would kinda stop, and in the last split second his Shinigami conscience would snap out of it, making him 1/4 sane... That incomplete Fullbring look alike form looked kinda cool, and when I look at my current desktop wallpaper, I recognize it again. I downloaded that desktop before I watched the movie, so there is no way I could have known that it was RAW Fullbring Ichigo on my desktop, haha...
What do you think about that,... did this special transformation in movie 4 indicate that future unconscious Fullbring powers?
that's logical. it appears to be the same. in hell, Ichigo's hollow power is amplified, the atmosphere gives his negative side overwhelming dominance over Ichigo's good persona. at the near end, when Hell agrees with Ichigo's resolve, the Hell Guard gave Ichigo control/authority to over his demonic/hollow side thus appearing in that form.
in fullbring, the human persona of Ichigo taps a different source of power and filters out reiatsu. without reiatsu, the hollow form could not manifest right? that's why the fullbring form of Ichigo appears to be more like mechanical/physical form as it was in Hell. which means, both the Hell Arc and the Substitute Shinigami Arc have focused on a different plane inside Ichigo's power. one which clearly is outside the reach of his inner hollow.
it's confusing. if i assume some simple explanation. first is to divide Ichigo's persona and power.
1.A. GOOD REIATSU - SHINIGAMI. (MAX=FINAL GETSUGA FORM)
1.B. BAD REIATSU - HOLLOW-HYBRID SHINIGAMI (MAX=FULL HOLLOW FORM)
GOOD FULLBRING - The manga version of Ichigo's FULLBRING
GOOD REIATSU+HELL POWER - HELL ARC Final Form
GOOD REIATSU+FULLBRING - The revived SHINIGAMI ICHIGO
as you can see, that's how i look at what's going down with Ichigo. still. there's more we need to see here.
elleztim, my friend,... that was undoubtedly the post of the day. You put it into such a crisp and clear picture...
and getting back at Muraki377's point, yes, I kinda see remnants of Fullbring on Ichigo's hands that probably has been revived along with his pure reiatsu Shinigami powers, that was, I assume, because, again according to Rukia Kuugo has swapped away only the surface of Ichigo's Fullbring powers because the other 95% percent was within his spiritual self. I mean, now it makes sense to me to me that even a great part of Ichigo's acquired Fullbring powers hasn't vanished yet, because IMO that great part of Fullbring has unconsciously manifested itself somehow within Ichigo's inner spiritual soul. And again I must remind of Rukia's words, Kuugo has only stolen a surface of Ichigo's powers, while the rest, as I've mentioned was slumbering deep inside Ichigo's heart and soul,... and there was no way that Kuugo could have swapped away Ichigo's entire powers, even when it was Fullbring... does it make sense to you, guys...
to close this matter in simple matter: After Kuugo "seemingly" snatched away Ichigo's power, all Ichigo needed was to get stabbed by that sword with the accumulated pure Reiatsu powers of all Shinigami in order to awaken his original Shinigami powers AND the acquired Fullbring powers that seemingly and unconsciously manifested itself within Ichigo's heart and soul,... which is obviously the reason why he has remnants of Fullbring on his body...
so in fact we truly see a more powerful revived Ichigo Kurosaki, the true Substitute Shinigami and savior of Soul Society...
back to elleztim: well, in the past, we two talked about the consequences of the after effects of the Final Getsuga Tenshou and that it could have had something to do with Ichigo not having mastered Fullbring yet, and that caused imbalances as well. So maybe I'm repeating myself again with that statement, but I think in order to remain in full control of the positive reiatsu, I mean that you talked about, it requires a lot of physical power and mental human strength, something that the Fullbring obviously can deliver. So in other words the Fullbring could be the balancer between evil and good reiatsu. Well, because I think, as of the situation now, I do not feel that Ichigo could lose control of his inner Hollow, after he has been revived with purely new and fresh Shinigami powers along with the fully awakened Fullbring, because as I said, I think the Fullbring is kind of a balance of power that the user does not become too much Hollow and not too much, guess what Final Getsuga Tenshou... because Final Getsuga Tenshou form had its imbalances as well, remember. Ichigo had to abandon his entire Reiatsu for this attack and consequently lost all his Reiatsu, including his devlish hybrid Hollow powers,... because in the battle within himself, Tensa Zangetsu and his Hollowform reunited with each other in order to prevent Ichigo from learning the Final Getsuga Tenshou, because they wanted to remain part of him...
OMG that sounds really complicated, doesn't it,... well let's say, I think if Tensa Zangetsu has been truly revived along with Ichigo's fully re established Shinigami Fullbring Powers, I think he could be kind of grateful to him, if they ever get the chance to converse again within Ichigo's spiritual soul, because I guess the Fullbring unconsciously allows Tensa Zangetsu, to be purified from evil Hollow powers right from the fresh start, with new energy...
...so how do you guys think about that???
EDIT: the latest edition of Bleach has nothing special to offer this week. We just see Tsukushima messing around with Orihime and Chado, before Urahara and Isshin knocked them unconscious, to drag them away from the battlefield. So obviously they are saved because I think Urahara knows how to reverse the effects of Tsukushima's powers, or so it seems. other than that... let the battle begin in the next issue of the Bleach Manga...
After reading all of your thoughts I had an idea that I want to share to see what you think of it...since the beginning Ichigo has gained powers that surpass what existed until then...he his a shinigami with powers equivalent to a captain...he might be less strong than yama-gi...but yama-gi is hardcore and I think no one can beat him!
He is a Vasto Lorde of terrible power...
from what Elleztim said he also has power over hell
and finally his fullbring seems to be stronger than most...
What if the reason why Aizen has known about Ichigo all his life is because somehow Isshin and him are part of the royal family...what if this power Ichigo seems to hold is something that only the King of Soul Society has...
what do you think?
edit:with this chapter at least we found out that all the fullbrings are together in this plot to trick Ichigo...I wonder if the story they told Ichigo and Sado about their powers is really true...
Well, I might be wrong, but I think they're gonna get their a$$es kicked because Rukia, Renji, Byakuya and all the other Shinigami must have developed their skills and Reiatsu level by now. And we will have a chance to see them in the upcoming chapters. Remember Kuugo stole only a part of Ichigo's Fullbring powers. There's no way they would be able to win like this.
I'm also anxious to find out about Kuugo's and Isshin's past and their past disputes...
looks like Tsukushima's still there doing the dirty tricks and surprisingly, Kuugo don't quite like it. so the rest of Kuugo's crew were actually planning to share Ichigo's power. i didn't know that you can take fullbring in an item and others could use it.
and more revelations about the Substitute Shinigami law which is because of Kuugo's betrayal.. actually, do captains might fight here as well since Kuugo's and his comrades are ganging up on Ichigo.
Well, I think, if they already agreed upon implementing all their Reiatsu to reawaken Ichigo's powers, I think it would make perfect sense that they help him in that upcoming battle.
Now we can see whether Ginjou Kuugo is really strong or not. I think Kuugo's group is gonna get their a$$es kicked, they don't look like they pose any threat to Rukia, Byakuya and co.. If my thoughts are correct, especially Zaraki Kenpachi would think those goons of Kuugo are a joke and be bored to death to even bother with one of them. The thing is Kuugo has stolen only the surface of Ichigo's powers, and how can those goons from X-cution become strong with not even 10 percent of Ichigo's Fullring powers?
What do you think???
I agree! There's no way that they will be able to stand against the captains...unless there's something we don't know...
that is if we are not making a mistake of underestimating that 10% surface power of Ichigo's fullbring combined with their own powers.
our captains are definitely winning this part but the result is far showing how the battle would turn out. it's not that the gap between their power is close but rather the powers of the enemy are kinda trickster and now it has the edge of Ichigo's fullbring for the offense.
though i think this just sets the mood right to showcase how far our captains have developed their skills especilly Hitsugaya who have been shown training so hard after his failure against Aizen.
and of course, Kuugo just made if perfect for Ichigo to used his renewed Bankai (Fullbring version).
And the other thing is, guess what,... Ichigo and his friends haven't revealed their ultimate weapons yet which is... Bankai.
So Ichigo, as for now, is actually just fighting in his normal level Zanpaktou stage. I think his new Bankai will be a blast which he is sure about to reveal. And if he reveals his newly awakened Bankai, I guess we're gonna see Tensa Zangetsu evolving in Ichigo's inner spirit and witness how he thanks Ichigo for bringing him back to life. But I think we gotta wait for this part.
@elleztim: maybe you have overlooked part of my long post, but I think now that I mentioned my thoughts above, there' s something I would like to re evaluate with you:
You know, in the past, we two talked about the consequences of the after effects of the Final Getsuga Tenshou and that it could have had something to do with Ichigo not having mastered Fullbring yet, and that caused imbalances between in his Soul, something like that,... Sorry, when I repeat myself again with that matter, but I think in order to remain in full control of the positive reiatsu, it requires a lot of physical power and mental human strength, something that the Fullbring obviously can deliver. So in other words the Fullbring could be the balancer between evil and good reiatsu. Well, because I think, as of the situation now, I do not feel that Ichigo could lose control of his inner Hollow, after he has been revived with purely new and fresh Shinigami powers along with the fully awakened Fullbring, because as I said, I think the Fullbring is kind of a balance of power that the user does not become too much Hollow and not too much, guess what Final Getsuga Tenshou... because especially the Final Getsuga Tenshou form had its imbalances as well, remember. Ichigo had to abandon his entire Reiatsu for this attack and consequently lost all his Reiatsu, including his devlish hybrid Hollow powers,... because in the battle within himself, Tensa Zangetsu and his Hollowform reunited with each other in order to prevent Ichigo from learning the Final Getsuga Tenshou, because they wanted to remain part of him. And the thing was, both of them knew that it was too much to handle for a mere human to channel the energy of a Final Getsuga Tenshou without Reiatsu balancer like a Fullbring....
So what do you think, my friend???
that's really a mystery to me also.. Ichigo's power, both Shinigami and hollow reiatsu have been combined solely for the final getsuga. the consequence is that he lost his reiatsu.
now with the fullbring, and the power transfer from the captains, Ichigo was again able to use reiatsu.. during the first ever arc, when Rukia gave some of his power, Ichigo was only using shinigami power. so, does that mean at the moment, he only have shinigami and without any trace of hollow power? then,the addition of fullbring without the negative reiatsu would only empower his shinigami side.
there's still the part if his hollow power is reincarnated as well? when he unleashed his getsuga, the color was light, which means shinigami reiatsu. still no sign of his hollow part.
or it maybe the other way around. just bear with me for a little more.
what if fullbring was simply to unleash reiatsu into its physical form. Ichigo always needed to be in spirit form to use his power (hollow or shinigami). while Inoue and rest does not need them since their powers are fullbring-type. now, Ichigo was able to use his power in his human physical form and thus dubbed as fullbring.
this mean, we still haven't seen his hollow fullbring side because only his shinigami powers were given physical manifestation.
this came late to me: ICHIGO didn't changed yet to spiritual form. as far as i remember, upto now, he was still in his human form. or did he changed after he received that reiatsu from the captain. if so, where is his physical body?
I didn't see his body after he changed so I think you're right...he didn't change...he is using his shinigami/fullbring powers while in his physical body
exactly, that must mean that because of his fullbring, Ichigo can now use his shinigami powers without going into spirit form. so basically, he's fighting like Inoue and the rest right.
I think you're right! but if Ichigo can use his shinigami powers as human doesn't that mean that a normal person will now be able to see him change to that form...
well, i suppose you're right. normal/living person can now see him in his shinigami form. his shinigami uniform Shihakushō isn't exactly clothing but as explained before, it was part of his reiatsu. so that mean, it was also given physical form because of fullbring.
Well in other words, because Tensa Zangetsu and his Hollow form could only work well with Reiatsu, he had to simply sacrifice those two in order to attain the Final Getsuga Tenshou ability, is that correct. And as I said before for a mere Human without any complete Fullbring powers, that's too much toohandle, mentally and Physically... and yes, Ichigo's human friends could see him actually as soon as he arrived the scene with Aizen in his HUman raw power form.
... so by attaining the Fullbring, Ichigo should be able to use the most powerful Getsuga Tenshous whenever he pleases, because with Fullbring , his human mental powers have minfested itself with his spiritual Soul as well, keeping it together with his human conscience.
And,... we haven't even seen him and the other Shinigami using Bankai yet. So again, how are the other members of Kuugo gonna beat them with only a small fraction of Ichigo's power, when they go all Bankai LOL!!!!!!
Hey guys, and Wooooow have you been chatting this up =P
I'd like to rejoin the conversation with the next chapter if that's okay with everyone?
Personally, I'm really excited by the way Kubo-san has brought Ichigo back into the fight and I can't wait to see him really kick Kuugo's ass xD
Welcome back, Vampluva, we've been missing you for like an eternity. That makes a total of 4 Bleach fans in this thread here. Just to keep you up to date. We're discussing Ichigo's current state of his fully renewed Shinigami Powers along with his newly acquired Fullbring powers and, for me personally I am interested in past comparisons of his former Final Getsuga Tenshou form, and his current Shinigami Fullbring form, and whether he can even go into "Ultra Bankai" mode, now that he his Fullbring has manifested itself into his Soul or Reiatsu... or in other words,... BODY and SOUL, not only SOUL like in Final Getsuga Tenshou mode...
@Vampluva: you're always welcome here and it's good to hear from you again.
@Maxi-Ryu99: not only that it is a fullbring bankai, but it is also probably the first time Ichigo would use that in his human/physical form. that is if it's confirmed that he is still in human form right now.
That makes three Birthday Bashes in a Row.
did you tell your friend lots and lots about the confederacy?
Bantams: My Friend is Jewish, and I told her about a new Book I bought called "The Jewish Confederates", and she told me about a Book she read about a northern Jew who tried to assassinate the C.S.A. Secretary of State who was Jewish.
I am disappoint at the lack of dinosaurs
So we exchanged Books.
She ate Cheese Pizza since she is kosher.
Kath: Her three-year-old was more into Thomas the Tank Engine than Dinosaurs.
Brother that is.
I'll thomas your tank engines
Bro: You are not my Type. And I am not in the Mood. Too exhausted.
I wasn't even talking to you in particular
Because that was uncomfortable.
you should have talked to her about hitler youth im sure she would love that and it is highly appropriate
She has seen me in my Schrodinger Costume at an Anime Convention at her College. She is open-minded.
She loves "Hellsing."
Said she dated a Guy who looked just like Montana Max.
Why does the Chatroom die only after I say something?
chatroom dies occassionally anyways
gee I wonder why, bradley
you'd think more people would be interested in talking about the confederacy and hitler youth
Bro: In the worst possible Way, you are right.