Spudsy2061

@_@ Woah guys. Come on now I think through all that heavy reading we can agree with the majority of the AP people and say sub is better and put this argument to rest.

nychi002

I think what he's trying to say (in a very round-about way) is that in that particular case the Japanese are responsible for for many believe to be a bad selection for an English VA. Most people without having researched the material believe Viz Media was behind Naruto's voice selection, when in fact its not the case. The contract called for this particular person to play Naruto set by the Japanese. And yet a lot of people today still blame Viz Media when they really aren't at fault. I had to learn this at a convention. But hey if I'm wrong tell me. I have no clue about anything else the two of you have been talking about and I really shouldn't be getting in the way of other people's discussions.

Angelus01

But I have talked with people who work first hand inside the industry. Some of my contacts happen to be people who take part in the discussions. So they would know better what goes on inside the industry and the negotiating table. Just because there isn't enough published material doesn't mean that your "logically based" claims are accurate either. While a conclusion may seem to make sense based around logic/business, it is quite possible that the conclusion is still inaccurate.

Angelus01

If you make conclusions with nothing backing them other than logic, the conclusions themselves have no founding other than maybe opinion. The evidence doesn't even have to be large. You can take a small example and use that as you founding hen you state your conclusions. At least then it looks like your getting information from somewhere.

Angelus01

The Ocean Group (just one example) is a Canadian based dubbing copy that only uses U.S. companies such as Viz Media as a market distributor for their work. All of the recordings that goes on by the Ocean Group are in fact recorded in Canada. Therefore the blame should logically be placed with a Canadian company, no? So why are you blaming the U.S. company when it was a Canadian company that may have done a poor job in this hypothetical scenario? Nelvana is also a Canadian based company headquartered in Toronto. They're the group that did Cardcaptors. Shouldn't all you rage and frustration for Cardcaptors be placed with them instead of the "U.S. companies"?

Angelus01

Secondly, the English voice for Naruto, Was handpicked by the Japanese as the voice they wanted for Naruto. So you can blame the Japanese for Naruto's voice actor.

Angelus01

That's really nothing more than just conjecture. The licencing contract would never have been signed nowadys if the US company had that kind of attitude. All the Japanese company would have to say is "Good bye. We'll find another group thank you." If the Japanese didn't like or agree with the changes they by no means have to agree to them. It sounds more like you're putting your own personal opinions in place of what really goes on in the industry and why. Come to think of it...some of your responses have been seriously lacking in actual researched material.

Angelus01

P.S. Don't put all the blame on the US dubbing company, whoever they are. Some the changes are forced onto the show by syndicated television networks that refuse to air the show without certain requirements/restrictions. They don't want to lose ratings due to content they deem "too risky". Ratings = money for network television after all.

Rakuen

What makes you think the USA companies have more influence than the Japanese companies? Anime is already profitable in Japan, so the only thing Region-1/2 licensing can realistically offer is more profit. So where is the USA getting this higher ground at the bartering table?

nychi002

yes as consumers we can argue if a product was done terribly, but keep in mind that's like telling Jackson Pollock his artworks are just smears and splatters on canvas. Now as a whole anime may not be a high art form in Japan but to the artists who make them, it is. They should to some degree be able to do as they wish with there product as long as people like it.

nychi002

And yes the Japanese did give the OK to alter anime. They have to if they wanted to get their shows aired on T.V. which is now a major foot hold in the western market.

nychi002

Tokyo Mew Mew...little children aren't as interested in Japanese culture as you or I might be. So seeing a show with Japanese cultural references might just turn a little kid off. One Piece...I'll never understand that one other than One Piece's time slot demanded content change. You have to consider the new target audience that these shows are now going to be geared to, not just the original target audience

nychi002

OK this is simple technology limitations were dealing with fool.

nychi002

What if the flaws are subtle and you didn't notice them but the industry workers did. Wouldn't that still give them the right to alter their product before releasing to foreign markets? Would you still feel that unnecessary changes were made?

nychi002

what do you mean by "the original"?

nychi002

With that statement, if the Japanese did decide to alter their product for whatever reason, who are we to argue over their changes? Thay still have full rights to it and can therefore do whatever they want because it is their product.

nychi002

If you take a Japanese dvd and an American dvd the animation will be identical.

nychi002

If you take the commercial subtitles included with the domestic dvd release and use that as your "original" than the comparison would be fair.

nychi002

When I read that quote it implied that by changing the meanings they were in fact doing a "bad job" And because you didn't specify which dubs were being referenced the only conclusion left was that you believed all dubs that change things were "bad" or were following inaccurate material. This was before you complemented dubs and made your point more clear. It was a mis-interpretation on my part but was based on an unclear stance.

nychi002

If you think that dvd anime are fine then, say it. If you think that T.V. broadcasts are bad then say it. Just be sure to differentiate the two to avoid future confusion.

nychi002

Your opinion on the quality of the Haruhi Suzumiya dub was a complete blind shot based on just a few episodes and a promotional video. I'm not criticizing your opinions, merely how you reached those opinions. You didn't bother watching the whole thing but instead formed an...inacurrate (I'm being nice here) opinion based on what very little you did see.

nychi002

If you had watched all of the Haruhi English dub you would have known that the dubbing company (in this case Bandai) did a great job in translating, The actors were fully aware of their characters, and that other than minor dialogue changes nothing was edited from the original.

nychi002

Now if you did this to a title such as Haruhi, than how many other titles did you only partially watch and think they were done terribly without all the information?

nychi002

See what i mean when you don't observe all the facts?

nychi002

I'm not trrying to attack you personally here. I think this discussion is rather fun don't you?

Angelus01

To all those that say the Japanese voicing is better...By what standard do you use to determine that? Because they sound different? Because they sound "better" How are you able to judge if one person's voice is better than another's?

Angelus01

Someone please tell me how one actor's voice (someone speaking another language no less) is automatically superior than another's? Better question: What makes his voicing better? If you're watching a raw with no understanding of what's been said can you really, honestly tell me if a voice is showing proper emotion just by pitch and tone and facial expression alone (ex. sadness instead of rage)?

Angelus01

A lot (not all) of pro-subbers just like hearing the Japanese voices because it sounds different than the languages that they are bombarded with on an everyday basis.

nychi002

Earlier you made it sound all dubs were terrible because they "try to changes things"

nychi002

You're a Japanese language student. You should understand that there are certain things that can't be translated into English due to simple languages differences. So of course they are going to change things. For example, fansubs are more likely to keep in Japanese terminology because they can and because the people who are most likly to be watching their fansubs are the hardcore fan. When a company produces a dub they have to take into consideration EVERYBODY who might be watching not just the hardcore fan. So minor changes are done so that even the common man or childern will be able to enjoy it.

nychi002

On a final note since I see you made no comment on this point: Are all the dubs you dislike from anime made for public broadcast? Because if they are then you really can't say statements like "They try to change too much" or "They don't understand the material". Otherwise you're generalizing the good dvd dubs with the bad televisied dubs (most bad dubs are made ages ago anyways).

mcz928

The flaw in your arguement is that the ASOS Brigade promotional videos had nothing to do with the quality of the anime, translations, production, etc... Apart from the short interviews, the main thing we saw the promo cast do was...well, promote. And the fact that you've seen relatively little of the dub to compare makes your statement a complete blind shot in the dark.

nychi002

Okay you win here. the metamorphosis of Cardcaptor Sakura to Cardcaptors was just plain absurd and I don't want to even try and justify it. Nelvana thought they could appeal to a greater audience range by making it a dual gender show and while it raised awareness it also ticked people off.

nychi002

I surveyed the entire club in order to create the widest possible range of sample data. Surveying only one group creates fixed information which is bad unless that is precisely what you are aiming for.

nychi002

P.S. BTW the challenge was for you to name me a straight to dvd release, not a public broadcast anime, that was mangled terribly.

nychi002

I need to ask exactly which dub jobs are you referring to? Most people who complain about bad dub jobs, they're only source of dubbed anime are the pieces of crap aired on network TV. If you can find a straight to DVD release of an anime that was altered on purpose than by all means tell me about it. Out of all my conversations with anime industry workers, they agree that the industry would not alter anime if they did not have to, which is what I said.

nychi002

When you feel up to it please by all means tell me why you think that companies or even what animes would still be edited even without the FCC regulations.

nychi002

I actually study Japanese and manage my college's anime club. I did several surveys to see if anyone in the club was able to pick out words or pharses.

nychi002

This topic has been done to death. And mainly by people who don't have as firm an understanding on how or why the industry goes the way it does. You think that companies would edit their anime if the FCC didn't have broadcasting rules?

nychi002

What one person thinks is a trashy dub job, three others might believe to be a masterpiece of voice acting and vice versa (I have heard bad Japanese voice acting as well. Most people are just too busy reading text or watching the footage to pay as much attention to the actual words and voices).